Episode 9

full
Published on:

11th Mar 2025

TA's Six Steps For Getting Your Seat at the Table

So far, we’ve talked about personal branding, building relationships with finance, email outreach, maturity models, video strategy and so much more. It may seem like a scattershot approach, but there IS a method to the madness. All these ideas are ways in which you increase your visibility, make your value more clear, and get the respect you deserve.

In other words, these are examples of changes you can make to get your seat at the table.

But today, we’re going to be more direct around the six big ideas you need to embrace to get where you want to go.

Get the download (The Ultimate Set of Talent Attraction and Employer Branding Tactics) for free at PeopleMBA.com

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Transcript
James:

Okay, so, so far if you've been paying attention and of

James:

course you have, why wouldn't you?

James:

You've seen that we've talked about everything from email and video

James:

strategy to personal branding, to talking with the CFO to, gosh,

James:

all sorts of maturity models.

James:

There's all sorts of great stuff that we've talked about, and if you don't

James:

see the bigger picture, you might wonder what the heck's going on.

James:

This seems pretty random.

James:

Well, congratulations.

James:

Today we reveal a bit more of the.

James:

Bigger picture, what does it really take to get that seat at the table?

James:

What is the the methodology?

James:

What is the framework?

James:

What is the way you look at the biggest challenge in work to make it happen?

James:

And the reason why we've been talking about these little things is because

James:

they all add up to this larger thing.

James:

So now that we've.

James:

Gotten pretty good at doing the little things, and we're gonna do plenty more

James:

little things and plenty more big things.

James:

But today we reveal more of the blueprint.

James:

So stick around and check out how to get your seat at the table.

VO Lady:

What does it really take for talent acquisition leaders

VO Lady:

to get their seat at the table?

VO Lady:

Turns out there are six core elements.

VO Lady:

Welcome to the people MBA.

VO Lady:

This episode on what It Takes to Get The Respect You Deserve is

VO Lady:

brought to you by Happy Dance Career Sites and Employer Brand Labs.

VO Lady:

Let's go check the voicemail.

James:

Alright, Brian, before we get started, why are you

James:

most excited about this episode?

Bryan:

Well, we've got loads of ideas.

Bryan:

Um, we are the sponsors of this episode so we can say what the

Bryan:

hell we like, which is also good.

Bryan:

However, but more to the point, uh, the download is 155 scrappy

Bryan:

ideas to activate your employer brand and drive TA campaigns, um,

Bryan:

categorized in a really smart way.

Bryan:

And there's some really good ideas in this download.

Bryan:

It's 155 of them.

Bryan:

I statistically there's gotta be a couple of good, well, there's gotta be something,

Bryan:

you know, but I. I think, I think the biggest benefit is not all of them are

Bryan:

gonna be, uh, applicable to everybody, but it's amazing when you talk about these

Bryan:

ideas in this download with your team, it will spark new ideas that are super

Bryan:

relevant, uh, and appropriate for you.

Bryan:

And it ranges from I. Zero budget from a scrappiness perspective to

Bryan:

maybe some budget or, or whatever.

Bryan:

So there's something in this for everyone, everyone needs to download this.

Bryan:

Um, I'll, I'll be honest guys.

Bryan:

James did the vast majority of this work.

Bryan:

I contributed, uh, and I I'm reading through it going,

Bryan:

Jesus, that's a great idea.

Bryan:

That's a great idea.

Bryan:

That's a great idea.

Bryan:

So I know for a fact people are gonna get a lot of value out this.

James:

Very cool.

James:

All

Bryan:

right, we'll see you on the other side.

VO Lady:

You've reached the people MBA.

VO Lady:

We're out shopping for our new global headquarters, so go

VO Lady:

ahead and talk after the beep.

Caller:

We know from our clients that one of their biggest challenges is

Caller:

ensuring their employer brand work is prioritized during times of change.

Caller:

Can you share your thoughts on how they stay top of mind.

Caller:

Alright,

James:

Brian, you are clearly shopping for global headquarters

James:

at yet another location.

James:

How is wherever the heck you are, how are things.

Bryan:

Uh, good.

Bryan:

Obviously I can't reveal my exact location.

Bryan:

Of course not security reasons, you know.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

I'm surprised we didn't have

James:

to disguise your voice too.

James:

Let's just go all out.

Bryan:

Uh, you know, I like to keep it interesting.

Bryan:

Keep, uh, stay on the move, uh, you know, keeps me, keeps me scrappy.

James:

I, I, I wanna point out that you're in a hotel room and you're in, in the,

James:

in the town in which you live, but we don't have to say exactly where you are.

James:

Clearly just moving from place to place to avoid someone, and I won't

James:

even guess who that someone might be.

James:

I won't even guess.

Bryan:

Anyway, I'm about an hour away from where I live.

Bryan:

Just to be clear.

Bryan:

It's all wonder.

James:

I've already said too much.

James:

That's true.

James:

I'm already triangulating your position and sending, sending the dogs.

James:

Alright.

James:

Uh, today we're gonna talk about big picture stuff and I don't look, and I'm,

James:

I'm, I'm, I'm well known for thinking in big picture and abstract terms.

James:

And what we wanted to do is really talk about the details these first

James:

6, 7, 8 episodes to kind of give you a sense of we're talking about.

James:

Very tangible things.

James:

How to write a better email, how to build a video strategy, how to

James:

see your future with a maturity model, all that good stuff.

James:

But today, we're putting the pieces together enough so that we hope you really

James:

see the big picture, how this all works.

James:

Now, there's still lots of.

James:

Room on the puzzle to fill in, and there's lots of stuff for us to talk about.

James:

Don't worry, there's no shortage of stuff for us to talk about,

James:

but this is the point in which we said let's reveal the puzzle.

James:

So Brian, let's talk about, just, let's just lay out the mapping

James:

of the big what, what do we have?

James:

Five or six ideas of things you have to think about perpetually to really

James:

be able to claim that seat at the table to really be seen, to get the respect

James:

you want and to make the real change.

James:

You wanna make it work?

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

So, you know, there's, there's a number of.

Bryan:

Puzzle pieces, puzzle pieces, and some of them we have already discussed

Bryan:

already, but potentially in isolation.

Bryan:

So talking about how they fit together and, you know, what

Bryan:

are the larger components?

Bryan:

And the, the first one, and this, this will come as no surprise, I always go

Bryan:

back to, is the, the alignment with the, the, the business priorities and the

Bryan:

direction of travel for the organization, plugging into what leaders already care

Bryan:

about and, and demonstrating what you're doing and how it's gonna turn into

Bryan:

macro capability for the organization.

Bryan:

That's, that's always where I'm gonna start.

Bryan:

I think it's the North star.

Bryan:

If you hang everything off that, then it's gonna be easier to have relevance

Bryan:

and context and explain what you're doing.

Bryan:

Um, if it rolls up to something that people are already familiar with, is

Bryan:

already prioritized, maybe already as budget, uh, and certainly as a leader

Bryan:

that's, um, you know, um, staying up at night worrying about delivering

Bryan:

what they're trying to do, you know, if we can, if we can align with

Bryan:

those things, we we're gonna get far.

James:

I mean, if you spend all your time thinking about how do you look, most TA

James:

leaders spend time thinking about things like, how do I shorten my time to fill and

James:

how do I get better quality candidates?

James:

And that's all well and good, and I'm, I get why you're thinking about that.

James:

But if the business this quarter has says, we gotta open the Topeka office, I.

James:

And you're over here dealing with how do you shorten the timeframe?

James:

Guess what?

James:

You are not aligned to what the business HA is trying to do, and friction will

James:

happen, and you're going to kind of find yourself with the short end of

James:

the stick because suddenly you aren't prepared for these business shifts.

James:

And ultimately, once you have that seat, the table, you will be

James:

kind of seeing what's happening and you can prepare yourself.

James:

But if you can't pivot to that new business reality, you're in trouble.

James:

And they're gonna start leaning on things like agencies and other

James:

outside sources, and they will not.

James:

See you as valuable, and that's really where that happens.

Bryan:

Yeah, I, I also think it's an opportunity, so if you can see

Bryan:

what's coming and anticipate what's gonna be required from a talent

Bryan:

perspective, you can start to be a little bit more vocal with, okay.

Bryan:

I. If this is what the business requires, we need to consider this, we need to

Bryan:

consider that that's gonna require this budget, it's gonna need this timeline.

Bryan:

We need to get started.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

So all of this sort of wishlist stuff that, you know, you

Bryan:

ultimately need to build and manage for your, um, for your area.

Bryan:

And function.

Bryan:

If you're constantly, um, giving it meaning context and attaching it to

Bryan:

a tangible contribution to what the business is trying to do, then the budget

Bryan:

conversations, the alignment, the buy-in, all of those will, will be much easier.

James:

And it, it's a, it's a horrible catch 22.

James:

The conversation is happening about the, the, the me, the meta, you know,

James:

metaphorical Topeka situation, right?

James:

It's happening right now in a boardroom.

James:

You are not invited to because you don't have the seat at the table.

James:

And if you aren't invited, and let's be fair, I know a lot of TA leaders

James:

who say they're the last people kind of informed about these massive

James:

sweeping business directional changes.

James:

If they're the one last ones kind of.

James:

Told, they're always playing catch up.

James:

And when you're playing catch up, you can't do your best work.

James:

And if you're not doing your best work, you can't get the ca table.

James:

And that's where the catch 22 kind of situation kind of kicks into gear.

James:

So.

James:

This is not a one kind of factor solve here.

James:

This is just one big element to keep in mind about how to show your value,

James:

how to get the seat of the table.

James:

The next one is kind of obvious, but let's just clearly state it for

James:

the record, a level of expertise and competency at everything you do it.

James:

Most people we know don't quite get what recruiters and

James:

talent acquisitions do all day.

James:

Um, you know, you just have to look at LinkedIn to see all the myths

James:

about surrounding what recruiters do all day and how easy their job

James:

is and how they just kind of hang around is wait for the a TS to fill.

James:

And obviously we know that's not true.

James:

You have to show what your job is.

James:

You have to show a level of competence.

James:

You have to show a level of willingness to be flexible.

James:

You gotta be good at what you do.

James:

We've already talked about in previous episodes how that's not enough.

James:

But if you're not good at what you do.

James:

You're done.

James:

Let's, so you gotta start by getting good at what you do.

James:

Brian, you gonna fight me on that one?

James:

Is that a, is that a, a sticking point for you?

Bryan:

So, I, I mean, for me, you're right.

Bryan:

It's, it is, it is kind of obvious and you know, I think if people

Bryan:

are in that situation and they recognize some elements of weakness,

Bryan:

'cause let's face it, you know.

Bryan:

A TA leader requires you to be, um, a jack of all trades

Bryan:

and an expert at all of them.

Bryan:

Yes, and it's tough, you know, laying on top of that.

Bryan:

I think there's a general perception that, um, TA is easy in from, like,

Bryan:

when you look at it from other parts of the organization, so.

Bryan:

You know, some, some aspects to combat that is continually communicating what

Bryan:

it takes and all, and what all the moving parts are and the dependencies in

Bryan:

order to do something with excellence.

Bryan:

Because I think the internal education can't ever stop there because people

Bryan:

from a, a complacent, sort of naive perspective will also always to fall back

Bryan:

to, well, you know, it's, it's easy, you know, all, all you do is put some jobs

Bryan:

up and just fill roles when we need them.

Bryan:

Some, some solutions from that that come to mind.

Bryan:

And, you know, this is from 20 years experience in the, in the industry.

Bryan:

And, you know, I'm sure this will resonate with you as well, James, is

Bryan:

it's a small global community of people who are particularly sort of generous

Bryan:

and open to helping and supporting.

Bryan:

So, you know, this is, this is probably a, a, a little obvious reminder as

Bryan:

well to lean on the community, ask some questions, you know, and if you scratch

Bryan:

my back, I'll scratch yours kind of thing.

Bryan:

There's a lot of value out there.

Bryan:

This being.

Bryan:

One component, our conversation on what we're doing, but there's, there's some

Bryan:

phenomenal experienced TA leaders out there that have probably been there, done

Bryan:

that, or they have strengths where you have weaknesses and vice versa, you know?

Bryan:

So, um, there's, there's a, there's a lot of opportunity there to collaborate

Bryan:

and, and get stronger along the way.

Bryan:

Obviously.

Bryan:

Obviously it's got to start with recognizing these are our strengths.

Bryan:

This is what our breeding ground or environment is

Bryan:

gonna, is, is optimized for.

Bryan:

This is where we're not so strong.

Bryan:

You know, you've, you've gotta do that 360 analysis to understand

Bryan:

what you are good at and perhaps what you need to improve on.

James:

I, I and I, it, I get that TA leaders are insanely busy.

James:

I'm gonna go ahead and just bite the bullet and say, we all are like

James:

everybody, there's nobody, you know, just hanging around doing nothing.

James:

There's everybody's busy doing something.

James:

I think too often, some, sadly, too many TA leaders use

James:

that in as an excuse to not.

James:

Uh, level up to not listen to podcasts, to not read books, to not

James:

go to conferences, to not whatever it is it takes to get better.

James:

I think there's an assumption that TA is a slow changing beast, and

James:

that was true for 40, 50, 60 years.

James:

It isn't true anymore.

James:

We're in a space now where you can't just be competent and excellent.

James:

What you do.

James:

Tomorrow, the game is going to be different.

James:

You have to keep your eyes open.

James:

You have to always be learning, always be growing, and finding new

James:

ways to kind of challenge yourself.

James:

Otherwise, you're, you're, you're gonna find yourself up a creek.

Bryan:

I think it's easier said than done though.

Bryan:

I mean, let's, let's, let's be real.

Bryan:

Yes.

Bryan:

You know?

Bryan:

Absolutely.

Bryan:

Absolutely.

Bryan:

Because the day job of.

Bryan:

Satisfying the pressures that are on your desk right now and the agencies

Bryan:

that need to be satisfied for tomorrow are an endless stream of headache.

Bryan:

Let's, let's be super clear there.

Bryan:

So just finding the bandwidth to even think about next month when you've

Bryan:

got stuff on fire that requires agent attention is, is really tough.

Bryan:

You know, so it's probably sort of.

Bryan:

Very small changes, a little bit of time management, maybe some delegation

Bryan:

or given some team members, some junior members, some opportunity to step up or

Bryan:

contribute in a slightly different way.

Bryan:

Um, but it's, it's, it's easy.

James:

I mean, I'm not asking everybody to go to a conference every month.

James:

And that's, that's insane.

James:

Obviously, I, I can't ask that.

James:

Five, 10 minutes reading a couple of newsletters, two newsletters a day.

James:

I promise you, in a month you'll see the world differently.

James:

I promise you if you, if you, if you're looking at the right ones, you don't have

James:

to listen to 45 Minute podcast like ours.

James:

You don't have to watch long videos.

James:

You can also just in snippets and newsletters right now feels

James:

like the snippet snippety way.

James:

I'm making up words, uh, to digest and get new ideas and kind of

James:

see more of the lay of the land.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Well, no, I completely disagree.

Bryan:

I think you should always listen to the podcast.

Bryan:

Uh, but, but you know what though?

Bryan:

Uh, this is an interesting, potentially controversial point though.

Bryan:

Um, even if you could go to a conference every month, not every

Bryan:

Confident Conference is worth it.

Bryan:

And in fact.

Bryan:

I would, I would go as far to say as the level of quality from a, a conference

Bryan:

perspective isn't where it used to be.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

And you know, there's more opportunity, there's more technology, there's more

Bryan:

complexity to get your head around.

Bryan:

And I think there's scarcity of, of experts, domain experts sharing this

Bryan:

stuff in a public forum and, and some conferences not, um, are perhaps a

Bryan:

little bit guilty of just putting.

Bryan:

Any old person on stage, especially if they're from a big brand, to share a

Bryan:

story because it, it looks like sex crime.

Bryan:

Why would you look, look at me.

Bryan:

That,

James:

like when you were saying stuff like that, why, why would you call me out

James:

like that, sir? That seems unnecessary.

James:

No, we could do a whole, we could do a whole episode on, on our

James:

challenges about conferences.

James:

'cause we, lord knows we, we've, we've attended more than our fair share.

Bryan:

Well think about that from a time management perspective.

Bryan:

And sometimes it's a lot of travel, a lot of time out.

Bryan:

Yeah, a lot of expense in hotel rooms and dinners and all of that

Bryan:

stuff, and it's just not worth it.

Bryan:

So, um, choose, choose those moments carefully and then you're right.

Bryan:

Find five or 10 minutes every day and you know, but again,

Bryan:

I just wanna call that out.

Bryan:

It's easy.

Bryan:

So totally

James:

all in there.

James:

Totally.

James:

Alright, let's get to the next one, which is networking and influence.

James:

You're always, always, always building influence.

James:

You are doing it one way or another, right?

James:

You are always letting people know who you are, what you're about, what

James:

you care about, what your value is.

James:

You just gotta be intentional.

James:

If you wanna do a deep dive on that, you can check out our very, very

James:

first episode when we were, we, we lads, uh, about personal branding.

James:

But Brian, let's connect that idea to this larger sense of

James:

how to get a seat at the table.

James:

Okay, so we've covered network networking and influence pretty

James:

deeply in that one episode.

James:

The next kind of big challenge or thing you should be thinking about

James:

as a tea later is the sense of.

James:

Reporting and evidence, you've got to prove what you say.

James:

And kind of, this is a good segue from this idea of taking a victory

James:

lap and showing your value.

James:

This is how you show the value.

James:

Yes.

James:

People will see the value of having better people around them.

James:

Their talent pool, their candidate pool is, is more qualified.

James:

There's some bigger names or some other, you know, interesting places

James:

that you're pulling them from.

James:

You need to show the data, which means you need to think about your data, which

James:

means you need to think about what numbers you want to be reporting in six, 12

James:

months time to show that you really are.

James:

It's, it's, I've always played the game of having to chase data is, is tough.

James:

Being intentional about what you want to be sharing is so much more effective.

James:

Bryan, what do you think about when you think about data-driven reporting?

James:

What are the things that either everybody gets wrong or are getting

James:

missed or just is there a place where we can draw a really strong underline

James:

about what is the most important thing?

Bryan:

I mean, I think there's, I think there's two things for me.

Bryan:

One, if you present data and it's not benchmarked against a previous

Bryan:

performance or a competitor's performance for something to give it

Bryan:

some tangible context, then um, it could be a great big waste of time.

Bryan:

And then the second thing is, um, data isn't enough If you can't interpret what

Bryan:

that data means in terms of insight, um.

Bryan:

Again, nobody, nobody really cares.

Bryan:

You know, it, it might be enough to sort of save your job or sort of maintain a

Bryan:

flat budget or justify your existence.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

But you know, if you add a therefore on the end of everything you're doing

Bryan:

so far, you know, and make it, it's

James:

a great

Bryan:

hack.

James:

That is

Bryan:

a

James:

great hack.

James:

I love that.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

And, and just interpret what that means for the business and usually

Bryan:

when you, when you achieve something.

Bryan:

Um, and there is an insight.

Bryan:

There's an, there's a business opportunity that then can go along with it and, you

Bryan:

know, those three bullet points after the therefore could be the difference between

Bryan:

increasing the budget, you know, being in introduced to a new monthly senior

Bryan:

meeting, or, you know, whatever it is.

Bryan:

But it will open doors.

James:

Totally.

James:

And it's the same kind of model that, you know, I used to teach my team back

James:

way, way, way, way back when I had a team that when you're revealing work,

James:

you don't just say we want to do X. You start every presentation with three words

James:

in order to, that sets you up to say, this is what we're trying to achieve.

James:

And everything beyond that is how you make that happen.

James:

I think that therefore is a great hack to force you to get outta your head and

James:

say, Ooh, that's a good number, therefore.

James:

This, this, this is how you are properly communicating to the

James:

people who need to hear it most.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

I think, um, if you get into that habit, you know, all those benefits will follow

Bryan:

and I would go as far as to say, look.

Bryan:

Train your team to be doing that and bringing the therefores to

Bryan:

you and making sure percent, yeah.

Bryan:

Make sure they understand what this is all for and what it's gonna take to get more

Bryan:

budget or you know, to be relevant, to be seen or get, get information just ahead

Bryan:

of time, you know, a little bit sooner.

Bryan:

Like think about workforce planning.

Bryan:

I mean, there's an episode for you, but.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Um, you know, if you knew what was coming a little earlier, just think

Bryan:

what difference that that would mean.

Bryan:

All of these are opportunities to demonstrate the value you can bring.

Bryan:

The elevated value you could bring if things were slightly different

Bryan:

and, you know, the, these are the.

Bryan:

These are the little differences that you might make once a quarter

Bryan:

that gets you closer to the table.

James:

Yeah, no one's going to, there's no magic wand.

James:

There's no magic bullet.

James:

There's no switch.

James:

You flip to get you there.

James:

You are building this narrative arc over the course of 3, 6, 12.

James:

24 months to really show not why you should be at the table, but why they

James:

are, they, they would be crazy not to invite you every single time you, yeah.

James:

It's one thing to muscle your way and throw a couple elbows to get

James:

in there, but what you really want is for them to say, wow, you know

James:

who we're missing at this table?

James:

Head of ta.

James:

Yeah, person who's driving the talent bus.

James:

That is so critical, and that doesn't happen easily, but it is a million

James:

tiny little decisions and elements and things that have to stitch

James:

together to create the story of your inherent clear value to the business.

Bryan:

Absolutely.

Bryan:

And you know, if, if you can build, if you can build a personal brand

Bryan:

such that you're, um, a domain expert, you want rooms that you are not in.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Uh, where people, some people suggest, Hey, what, what would,

Bryan:

what would James do here?

Bryan:

We need to get James' advice here.

Bryan:

What would we.

Bryan:

You know, what's his advice or you know, that type of thing.

Bryan:

When that starts to happen, you know you're doing something right.

VO Lady:

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VO Lady:

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VO Lady:

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VO Lady:

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VO Lady:

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VO Lady:

stranger who might become a friend.

James:

Okay?

James:

By my count, this is number five, uh, of six.

James:

Being scrappy and working within your current budget.

James:

Now, this is, this is your phrasing and I, I have some thoughts, but I want you

James:

to kick this off because it, I think this is so critical to doing great work

James:

and to being seen doing great work.

Bryan:

Yeah, I just think it's the reality of you've got to deliver the results.

Bryan:

You've got to deliver, and you've got to do it with the budget,

Bryan:

resources, and team that you've got.

Bryan:

So there's no sense moaning about it.

Bryan:

It's about making a plan that's feasible based on, you know, the

Bryan:

assets and resources around you.

Bryan:

I, I'm a great believer having, you know, a long entrepreneurial career.

Bryan:

In the absence of budget, you've gotta replace that with brain power and

Bryan:

sort of creativity and innovation and hard work and late nights and all that

Bryan:

stuff, all of which can contribute to a phenomenal high performance culture

Bryan:

and, uh, an ability to push a team or just encourage your own personal growth

Bryan:

and all of, all of that good stuff.

Bryan:

Yeah, but the fact is.

Bryan:

The stone cold reality is you've still got to do your job on a daily basis with

Bryan:

what's in front of you, the tools that you've got, the budget and resources.

Bryan:

So you may as well just get used to that fact, you know, and get on with doing

Bryan:

the best with what you've got, you know?

Bryan:

So hopefully we can not just point out the obvious and make you feel

Bryan:

bad about the resources around you.

Bryan:

We can give you some ideas around that as well though, right?

James:

Yeah, I mean, honestly, TA leaders complaining about their

James:

lack of budget is like a garbage person complaining about the smell.

James:

This is kind of the job.

James:

You will never get all the money you really need.

James:

So rather than complain about it, look at the constraint and say,

James:

what can I really do with it?

James:

One of my favorite writers, Alex Mh Smith, has a line that

James:

says, strategy replaces effort.

James:

And if you replace the, if you think of effort, not so much as

James:

blood, sweat, and tears, but also resources and budget applied.

James:

It's a thousand percent true.

James:

You can leverage think yourself to success.

James:

You don't have to spend yourself to success.

James:

Is money easy?

James:

Yes.

James:

If you have it, use it.

James:

If you don't, ah, you have another choice.

James:

It's really important because ultimately I think one of the fundamental

James:

truths in business is that winners.

James:

Get rewards, and it doesn't matter how big the win is, you, if you have a

James:

small win, it turns into a bigger win.

James:

And when you get bigger wins, people start to fund.

James:

You and I, and I tell the story, when I was at Groupon, we built the employer

James:

brand and all this activation for $500.

James:

Yes, I have the receipts.

James:

It was a full year's worth of work.

James:

It was a website and it was stickers and it was a whole thing.

James:

Got a hundred thousand pages, all this good stuff.

James:

I knew.

James:

If I showed what I could do for $500, the next conversation would

James:

be, what can you do with $10,000?

James:

It was actually 50, which was great, but that is how it works because ultimately

James:

businesses are placing these resources as bets at a casino table, and they.

James:

Can place bets in places where it's possible, it's gonna lose money.

James:

So why would they do that?

James:

And they don't always know the future.

James:

They don't always know what's going to work.

James:

So very often they're looking for people who are kind of on a hot streak, who are

James:

showing, oh wow, they were really scrappy.

James:

They come up with a really clever idea.

James:

Wow, that costs very little money.

James:

They did amazing stuff.

James:

They're a winner.

James:

They get more.

James:

That is just, it's, it's, it's, it's horrible.

James:

And it's, it's, it's Machiavellian in its, you know, nature.

James:

But it's so true.

Bryan:

Yeah, I, I love the analogy of the, um, the roulette table at

Bryan:

a casino and the great TA leaders I've worked with over the years.

Bryan:

They are always pitching DA, a multitude of internal stakeholders

Bryan:

for little pockets of their budget with a justification like, if, if

Bryan:

you gave us X week, we'll do A, B, and C and deliver y, and you know.

Bryan:

The budget at the start of the year is, is your budget, which is great, but for

Bryan:

me, you should always be at that roulette table, placing multiple bets, pitching

Bryan:

internal stakeholders that, you know, have their own budget saying mm-hmm.

Bryan:

If you, if you contributed this, we could do that.

Bryan:

And the benefit of that is it strengthens relationships.

Bryan:

It demonstrates a one-on-one, uh, understanding of what's required.

Bryan:

Once you have a little win there, like if they give you.

Bryan:

10 grand to do a pilot or do a obscure TA campaign in a weird location for

Bryan:

a new division that needs, you know, I don't know, cryogenic engineers

Bryan:

in, uh, Somerset, uh, which I've done actually, uh, weirdly, uh, I think

Bryan:

there was three, uh, people Anyway.

Bryan:

Um, but you know, you successfully deliver that.

Bryan:

You've now got a relationship, you've got, uh, a track record of delivering

Bryan:

success, and there's a way of finding.

Bryan:

New little pockets of budget that can add up to something

Bryan:

significant throughout the year.

Bryan:

So all the great tail leads I've worked with over the years are constantly

Bryan:

pitching internal stakeholders and budget holders for little pockets of

Bryan:

additional cash to, to get things done.

Bryan:

But even in the absence of that.

Bryan:

Let's talk a little bit about creativity and innovation and like just, you

Bryan:

know, how you can just leverage small amounts of budget and, um, big amounts

Bryan:

of goodwill and teams elsewhere and, you know, calls to action and

Bryan:

gratitude and, you know, whatever it is.

Bryan:

Uh, other aspects of currency inside organizations to achieve great results.

Bryan:

I mean, you, you must have seen some amazing, um, campaigns and, um.

Bryan:

Feats of creativity, overcome absence of budget over the years.

Bryan:

James, I mean, if you find any

James:

examples that spring to

Bryan:

mind,

James:

I mean the, the, what you do is you look at what you

James:

have, and this is something I try to bang the drum about a lot.

James:

It's easy to lament what you don't have.

James:

It's so smarter to say, what do we actually have sitting around?

James:

If you're Amazon and you have no money.

James:

There's a million boxes, literally a million boxes going out every

James:

day, and they gotta wrap that box with some kind of tape.

James:

Why isn't your message printed on it?

James:

They gotta print something on it, so why not yours?

James:

If you have trucks driving around the seat, you know, I talked to a, a plumbing

James:

company and they said, how do we compete when we're gonna, you know, the salary

James:

for a a this couple years ago, apprentice.

James:

Pipe fitter apprentice, a plumber who's 20 bucks an hour, but they

James:

could hold a sign by the side of the road with the state or the city that

James:

says, slow stop for 25 bucks an hour.

James:

I said, here's the deal.

James:

You've got this giant billboard driving around.

James:

You got five of 'em actually just driving around all over the place.

James:

You don't have to just put your, we got your phone number.

James:

Here's a big pipe kind of situation on the side of it, you can also

James:

say it's a career, not a job.

James:

Call here.

James:

And frankly, if you have that kind of message and you find yourself.

James:

Sitting in traffic while somebody's holding that stop.

James:

Slow, slow sign, right?

James:

You're speaking to the right audience.

James:

I was at Roku.

James:

Roku has a social channel or has, has, has a content channel.

James:

Why can't we use unused ad inventory for that?

James:

There's so many different ways you can just look around and see what the

James:

opportunities are and I, I, look, I'm just one guy thinking these things up.

James:

I guarantee if you look around at what you have, at what your business does and

James:

what your business is already spending money on, there's a lot of ways to kind

James:

of slide up on, and I wanna reiterate.

James:

Something you said where you talk about this idea of involving internal

James:

stakeholders to leverage their budget.

James:

That whole process is like a microcosm of everything we've just talked about.

James:

It requires being seen.

James:

It requires having strong perception.

James:

It requires showing results.

James:

It requires influencing them to change their mind just a little bit.

James:

It requires talking in their language, not yours.

James:

All of that stuff being scrappy, it's all right there.

James:

And that feels like an amazing kind of practice or scrimmage

James:

area for doing the big work.

James:

If you get good there, it will show up everywhere.

James:

And the best part is you'll be building these allies all over the company who

James:

are gonna scream your name about how great the work is that you're doing, and.

James:

There it is.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

I love that.

Bryan:

I love the fact that you picked up on a great point that I

Bryan:

made and, uh, expanded on it.

Bryan:

Well, James, thanks for that.

Bryan:

Well, might as well, might as well.

Bryan:

So that's what they paid me for actually.

Bryan:

What you're getting paid.

Bryan:

What?

Bryan:

No.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Well, anyway, you're spending on a travel budget.

Bryan:

Where are you going tomorrow?

Bryan:

Oh my goodness.

Bryan:

So, um, talking about, um, budget.

Bryan:

So obviously money is the, you know, the, the one budget.

Bryan:

But we also talked about this idea of currency.

Bryan:

Um, you know, there's gratitude, there's excitement, there is

Bryan:

fomo there, there is generosity.

Bryan:

You know, I've seen, I've seen, um, business cases that needs like 25 grand

Bryan:

to do a photo shoot and this, that and the other, and all the rest of it.

Bryan:

And then in the absence of that, I've seen, uh, a little backdrop,

Bryan:

a guy with a camera and, um.

Bryan:

A little, a little, um, box of cupcakes stickers, a couple of t-shirts.

Bryan:

Uh, you know, usually this is like there's a dusty shelf somewhere with a big box

Bryan:

of crap that people have produced and didn't get rid of at the last event.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Put it to work, put it in the middle of the office and just

Bryan:

ask people to get involved.

Bryan:

It's amazing what people will do.

Bryan:

'cause they, they want the, um.

Bryan:

You know, the new, um, water bottle or they want those five stickers or

Bryan:

a t-shirt stickers or something on.

Bryan:

Oh my God.

Bryan:

And it costs pennies.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

You know, but if you are just visible doing something and then you

Bryan:

dare to say, Hey, would you mind?

Bryan:

And if you do, I'll give you this.

Bryan:

Or, you know, you get people coming outta the woodwork, uh, excuse me.

Bryan:

So and so just across my cubicle said that they were given a stick of, uh, help.

Bryan:

Can you know, can I have one?

Bryan:

You know.

Bryan:

I love all of this kind of stuff where especially, you know, if, if you, if you

Bryan:

are in an office where people congregate and all the rest of it spontaneously

Bryan:

doing stuff and just recruiting people, um, in great spirits and of

Bryan:

course like thanking them afterwards.

Bryan:

Celebrating afterwards, absolutely.

Bryan:

Showing them the difference that they've made.

Bryan:

You know, you can very easily recruit an army of helpers.

Bryan:

Um, who are so willing and typically the advocates and they'll go back

Bryan:

to their desk and say, Hey, you know, they're giving away cupcakes.

Bryan:

Like you should, you know, get down there and, you know, I've

Bryan:

seen that happen so many times.

Bryan:

Yeah.

James:

If these are the kind of fun, crazy idea tactics, like buying a sheet

James:

cake with an employer brand, just to kinda launch it out, you know, 'cause

James:

how, how, how expensive the sheet is.

James:

The sheet cake, come on.

James:

It's not that hard.

James:

Turns out, and we just skipped right past this earlier, we have

James:

an amazing download for you.

James:

It is 155 free or almost free tactics to help you show off

James:

your work, show off your value.

James:

It is.

James:

Free to download it is right there, and the only way to download is to go to

James:

people NBA and if you're subscribed.

James:

It's free, and if you're not subscribed, subscribing is free.

James:

So there you go, 155 ways to really kind of show off your

James:

work, to show off the value.

James:

Just tactic on tactic, on tactic, all from a, a real

James:

cheapskate kind of point of view.

James:

Like how do we not spend any more money and it's.

James:

Even if you don't use any of them, I bet if you skim them and read them,

James:

they will spark all sorts of great ideas that are specific to your company

James:

to help you see, oh wow, I could do X, Y, Z, and blah, blah, blah.

James:

And I could partner with that person.

James:

I bet they would love to.

James:

And then the, and the ball gets rolling.

James:

That's what we have this stuff for it.

James:

Well look, we could look, we would talk about this stuff all day.

James:

Writing it down makes it easier to turn this stuff into action.

James:

So go ahead and download that over at the People Ev over@peoplemba.com.

Bryan:

Alright.

Bryan:

One love about that list, James, is the, um, like you say it, it might not

Bryan:

be, um, perfectly achievable, any of those ideas, but you put 10 of those

Bryan:

ideas in front of your specific team and say, how could we leverage this?

Bryan:

You're probably sort of, um, sprout off and come up with your own version

Bryan:

and your own your own ideas, and they're all designed to, you know.

Bryan:

Be able to do with that, with very little budget.

Bryan:

I mean, that's, uh, that's the beauty of that list.

Bryan:

And there's 155 ideas.

Bryan:

They're all categorized in, um, really helpful ways as well.

Bryan:

So yeah, look,

James:

we're, we're good at this, but we don't have comprehensive knowledge of

James:

every company and every kind of tactic.

James:

It's really about how do we get your brain spinning and you having better

James:

conversation with your team, with your.

James:

You know, people you're trying to influence to say,

James:

what else can we be doing?

James:

And hopefully that really kind of moves that forward.

James:

Alright, let's land on the last piece of the puzzle.

James:

The last big element.

James:

And that is you gotta have a vision of the future.

James:

If you are just getting better and building your muscles and you

James:

know, elevating your results and doing all this stuff, that's good.

James:

But the.

James:

What you're trying to do is make change and change just isn't just incremental.

James:

Sometimes it is a journey to something different.

James:

I'm thinking of going from transactional to relationship driven recruiting.

James:

I'm thinking about going from, uh, job boards to pipeline driven.

James:

I'm thinking about there's so many different kind of changes you could be

James:

making and those are almost small in compared to what I imagine you could.

James:

Think about, imagine a world in which every hiring manager is posting every

James:

three days about their open recs on social media and not, not just

James:

social media, to forums that you will never, ever, ever get access to.

James:

Imagine if every recruiter doesn't ever have to do an outreach, and that's

James:

everything is about inbound driven.

James:

What would they do?

James:

How would they make it happen?

James:

If you are just getting better, for the sake of getting better, you'll get better.

James:

If you really want to show that you are at that level, the seat at the table

James:

level, part of that is knowing you have a secret plan of where you wanna take

James:

this and what it's gonna look like.

James:

You don't have to share it, but honestly, I meet a lot of TA leaders.

James:

I know a lot of them who are just running as fast as they can and you know, they

James:

have no vision of where this ends.

James:

Some of them, you know, they have a clear idea of where they're trying to go.

James:

And trust me, it's subtle, but my God, it is night and day.

Bryan:

Well, I mean, I, I would go as far to say as like the great, the difference

Bryan:

between a great TA leader and a competent TA leader is having the clarity of what.

Bryan:

What great looks like.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

And what the destination is.

Bryan:

And by the way, when you get to that destination, there's another

Bryan:

three or four levels above it.

Bryan:

You know what I mean?

Bryan:

So, but if that wheel never

James:

stops, it's just you're always

Bryan:

running.

Bryan:

Absolutely.

Bryan:

And, but if you've got an idea of what best practice looks like and, um,

Bryan:

you've got one eye on what's happening in the industry and you, you know,

Bryan:

how you're benchmarking currently, um.

Bryan:

I actually, I actually think it is an important thing to share internally,

Bryan:

James, because if you can constantly demonstrate that you are thriving

Bryan:

and delivering results in less than perfect conditions, and you're

Bryan:

working towards a more strategic way of working versus tactically, that

Bryan:

always gets the attention of leaders.

Bryan:

Nobody likes to be thought of as operating tactically when there's a

Bryan:

strategic better way of doing things.

Bryan:

Exactly.

Bryan:

You know?

Bryan:

But kudos to you for still being able to put numbers on the board

Bryan:

in less than perfect conditions.

Bryan:

Yes.

Bryan:

And by the way, if, if I had a bit more budget or if we worked

Bryan:

in this way, like I could be, I could be working more effectively.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Uh, and I think that's an important narrative, a drum that should always

Bryan:

be beaten, you know, all, all the time.

Bryan:

And, you know, this might be a little bit, um.

Bryan:

Calling on outside the lines, but you know, if you see another role in another

Bryan:

organization and you wanna get a, if you've always got that plan of what best

Bryan:

practice looks like and what the next destination should look like, where you're

Bryan:

working towards, then you're gonna be ready to have those conversations, not

Bryan:

just inside your organization, but when a new opportunity presents itself as well.

Bryan:

And in this turbulent marketplace, you should always

James:

be ready with that.

James:

For those of you're long time watchers.

James:

Maybe one day we'll release the blooper reel of Brian fighting with his tv.

James:

It is really something.

James:

It is, uh, it is an epic battle of man versus machine.

James:

It is Moby Dickon in its sense of, you know, what does it take to survive?

James:

You know, it's, its good looking

Bryan:

guys

James:

though.

Bryan:

I mean, it's, well, one of them, it's of them.

Bryan:

There's no, yeah, yeah.

Bryan:

Sorry.

Bryan:

Thank.

Bryan:

You know, but, uh, it's not easy.

Bryan:

Do, it's not easy.

Bryan:

Do my own av you know, where's, where's my tech team, James?

James:

I don't know that that is, uh, next quarter's budget.

James:

We gotta talk about that.

James:

Thanks everybody.

James:

Look Remi reminder, the big, big download, 155 tactics and

James:

ideas to help you get better.

James:

You know, just very tactical stuff is available in the download.

James:

Just go to people mba.com.

James:

This whole episode has been sponsored by Brian and I, which means it's sponsored

James:

by Happy Dance and by Employer Brand Labs.

James:

So if you wanna relay cool, uh, career site, talk to Brian.

James:

If you wanna get sharper on your employer brand, talk to me.

James:

There we go.

James:

That's as much sponsors we have this week.

James:

We will have other sponsors next week because.

James:

This is just how we're doing.

James:

We, here's, here's the, here's the reveal.

James:

Sometimes we don't wanna be beholden to anybody else.

James:

Sometimes we just wanna say what we wanna say, and this was one of those times.

James:

So there you go.

James:

So thanks so much for listening.

James:

I, I, I clearly, I'm amusing, Brian, and that's really half my job.

James:

I don't have to be smart.

James:

I just have to use him.

James:

I've

Bryan:

gotta say, James, I can't think of a time when you haven't just

Bryan:

said what you wanna say and actually.

Bryan:

You know, I haven't got that much restraints either.

Bryan:

So, yeah,

James:

it's fig leaf.

James:

There's a question mark over, it's just a fig leaf.

James:

It's just to give us us just enough plausible deniability.

James:

Okay, good.

James:

That's all.

James:

It's all right.

James:

Uh, so if you're listening this long, why, but thanks so much for being here.

James:

Thanks so much for listening.

James:

Keep subscribing.

James:

Let somebody else know about this podcast that if, or this project, or this video,

James:

whatever the heck you wanna call it.

James:

Help your network, help your friends get their seat of the table just as you're

James:

working really hard to do the same.

James:

So don't until that, and those

Bryan:

the questions as well though, uh, we want questions in our voicemail, right?

Bryan:

That can be found at, uh, people nba.com.

Bryan:

Uh, record your dulce tones and we will directly answer your questions.

Bryan:

What have we missed?

Bryan:

What do you love about our download with 155 ideas?

Bryan:

What did you come up with on top of what we gave you?

Bryan:

Um, yeah.

Bryan:

All of this is great conversation.

Bryan:

We

James:

wanna hear from you.

James:

Absolutely.

James:

So thanks again and we will see you next week for another edition of People NBA.

VO Lady:

Oh, I get it now.

VO Lady:

The table is a metaphor.

VO Lady:

Uh, that's almost clever.

VO Lady:

Too clever for either of them to have made up on their own.

VO Lady:

Anyway, if this has inspired you or helped you see new ways of getting things

VO Lady:

done, tell a friend about the podcast or point them to people mba.com tooles.

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About the Podcast

The People MBA
Helping Talent leaders Get Their Seat At The Table
For talent acquisition leader who are trying to get their seat at the table, Bryan and James have your backs. Every week, we'll dive into a new topic and often have a guide, tool, script, or examples to empower you to show your leadership how valuable you and yorur team really is.

Brought to you by Bryan Adams of HappyDance and James Ellis of Employer Brand Labs.
To get the downloads, subscribe for free at PeopleMBA.com.

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James Ellis