Episode 8

full
Published on:

4th Mar 2025

Revealing the Secrets of Buying Recruitment Tech (without going crazy)

When did the recruiting tech stack start to feel more like a burden then a solution? Probably when there are a bajillion new tools to choose from.

And as much as each vendor wants you to buy their solution, they don't make it easy, do they? Vague claims, boring demos, and a lack of specificity on even big-ticket purchases make you feel like each decision is a chance for an expensive debacle.

So let's help you make some sense, not of tech, but of how to buy tech.

Get the downloadable guide at PeopleMBA.com

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Transcript
James:

It may not be the hardest thing in the world to buy recruiting

James:

ta, HR tech, but it isn't the easiest thing in the world.

James:

There are just about 4.3 bajillion vendors out there selling you something.

James:

It's not always clear what they're selling you.

James:

It's not always clear what it's gonna cost.

James:

It's not always clear if it's gonna work or if it's gonna fit or if you can use it.

James:

And it's enough to make a TA leader say, I'll just wait till next year.

James:

And a lot of you do, and I know that for a fact, a lot of you kick

James:

the can down the road and I can't.

James:

Complain about that.

James:

I, I understand.

James:

I understand.

James:

That's what we're gonna talk today about not kicking a can down the road,

James:

but how to make better decisions.

James:

It is really hard.

James:

There's a lot of good information, and we've entered a world in which

James:

every vendor is a thought leader and talks about how everything should

James:

work, and it makes it even harder for you to make better decisions.

James:

So what we're gonna talk about today is how to make better decisions,

James:

how to make better choices when it comes to buying your recruiting tech.

VO Lady:

If you are thinking about making a major tech purchasing decision

VO Lady:

and it's turning your stomach in knots, yeah, we understand how that works.

VO Lady:

Welcome to the people NBA, the show, helping TA leaders

VO Lady:

get their seat at the table.

VO Lady:

This episode on Making Sense Out of Tech Tool Buying is brought to you by Gem.

VO Lady:

Let's go to the voicemail.

VO Lady:

You've reached the people NBA.

VO Lady:

We're out shopping for our new global headquarters, so go

VO Lady:

ahead and talk after the beep.

Caller:

Hey, James and Brian.

Caller:

This is Mike from Fathom.

Caller:

I'd love to get your take on something I know a lot of us

Caller:

are wrestling with right now.

Caller:

How can TA leaders make smarter technology decisions?

Caller:

What do you think are some of the key factors or principles they should consider

Caller:

to ensure they're choosing the right tools for them and their organizations?

Caller:

I'd love to get your thoughts.

Caller:

Cheers, guys.

James:

All right, so as you heard, we're ready to talk about how

James:

to buy recruiting ta, HR Tech.

James:

We're not gonna give you any examples of what to buy because we can't, as you'll

James:

discover, everybody needs something different, and that's kind of important.

James:

Anybody who tries to tell you, it's a one size fits all.

James:

Yeah.

James:

Ask better questions, but today we're gonna talk about that and I am

James:

joined as always by Brian, our lovely cohot, my lovely co-host from who is

James:

apparently in a whole new den somewhere.

James:

Where, where are you in somebody's rumpus room?

James:

Where are you today?

Bryan:

What's a rumpus room?

Bryan:

I feel like we need to come back to, that sounds up the 1970s.

Bryan:

To me, that's all.

Bryan:

I so it, I mean, it looks amazing, doesn't it?

Bryan:

Look, it's, it's so cool.

Bryan:

'cause like this, this doesn't work.

Bryan:

And this is like, it's a podcast room in, I'm in, um, London War.

Bryan:

It's

James:

like you're in BrewDog.

James:

It's like you're in an Ikea

Bryan:

Yeah, an IKEA

James:

podcast set.

James:

That's funny.

Bryan:

Well, if, if IKEA made podcast sets, like, I mean, it is

Bryan:

a design, like there's a couple of lights and stuff like that.

Bryan:

There's an on air sign, which is, is quite cool, which I'll

Bryan:

probably put on Instagram soon.

Bryan:

Um, but apart from that, nothing's working.

Bryan:

Apart from the fact that I'm in like a, a soundproof.

Bryan:

A quiet place, but anyway.

Bryan:

Anyway.

Bryan:

Um, but look, that's where I'm,

James:

you are per, you are perfectly positioned to help answer these questions

James:

because you actually do and have sold and bought a lot of HR and recruiting tech.

James:

Mm-hmm.

James:

I have never sold recruiting tech.

James:

I have been part of the buying process.

James:

So I understand the pains, I understand how much fun it is.

James:

So I think together we're gonna come up with some good ideas and good

James:

strategies on how to make better choices.

Bryan:

Yeah, I think so.

Bryan:

I think so.

Bryan:

And you know, I'll have to sort of check myself.

Bryan:

I might be biased in some places, so it'd be interesting to see whether

Bryan:

you, whether we entirely align, um, you know, but I think there is a

Bryan:

perception that buying TA Tech now feels.

Bryan:

Harder than it used to be.

Bryan:

I'm not so sure about that.

Bryan:

There's definitely more choice.

Bryan:

Um, yeah.

Bryan:

And there's definitely a million and million different ways to

Bryan:

configure an HR tech stack.

Bryan:

I mean, let's face it, there's people that exist just to consult on your tech

Bryan:

stack and give you advice and all the rest of it that make a great living.

Bryan:

You know?

Bryan:

Yes, they do.

Bryan:

Um, so, you know, and, and for me it's almost like, do you

Bryan:

remember, um, years ago this, this.

Bryan:

Um, the stereo systems, you could buy individual layers

Bryan:

of your, of your stack mm-hmm.

Bryan:

And buy the best, like Tess turntable and you know, bang also, so receiver

Bryan:

speakers, all that kind of stuff.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

You know, and so the argument is do you select the elements of tech best in

Bryan:

class and put your own thing together or, and be responsible for putting it all

James:

together and keeping it together.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Or do you do end to end where you know you're dealing with one relationship,

Bryan:

but you know, like you can't possibly get best in breed of all of the

Bryan:

things across the spectrum, you know?

Bryan:

So

James:

yeah, you get one throat to choke, so to speak.

James:

You have one person to point to and say, that broke that.

James:

It, it's all you.

James:

You can't blame anybody else.

James:

Well, so whatcha

Bryan:

gonna do about it?

Bryan:

I, I mean, that's an interesting analogy because.

Bryan:

In my experience, usually it's exactly what you do want to do.

Bryan:

You end up wanting to choke somebody's throat.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

If you go for the end to end, because you can't be best in class

Bryan:

at every sort of, uh, aspect.

Bryan:

There's always a weak link in the chain, you know?

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

So, I don't know.

Bryan:

Um, yeah.

Bryan:

Where, where do you, where do you take the conversation from?

Bryan:

Me?

Bryan:

I mean, do you, do you think it's harder than it used to be?

Bryan:

Oh, absolutely.

Bryan:

I think you're right.

James:

The, the, the amount of choice out there is is, is flat out mind boggling.

James:

Just go to any conference and I know HR tech's coming up and I gotta imagine most

James:

people are gonna walk, walk around like.

James:

Like they cannot believe.

James:

And one, the level of technology is amazing.

James:

The stuff it can do is amazing, but you know what's more amazing?

James:

The stuff they say it can do, the, the claims being made, the sprinkling of all

James:

this technology and AI and wonderful stuff that make it sound like it's gonna all but

James:

brush your teeth for you in the morning.

James:

Like it's gonna do all this wonderful stuff.

James:

And then you go, okay, so what does it do?

James:

And when you see it, you go, oh, it does that.

James:

And I think there's such a gap between.

James:

The claims being made and the actual thing it does is really complicated.

James:

On top of that, look, if you sell a scheduling tool, there's a lot of

James:

people you can buy it from, but or buy, sell it to, but there's also a

James:

lot of people selling scheduling tools.

James:

So what's the best way to compete to put yourself on a higher level?

James:

You don't sell scheduling tools, you sell time.

James:

Now that sounds fantastic, but if I see five companies selling me

James:

time, I got no clue what I'm buying.

James:

I got no clue what they're selling.

James:

I got no clue how it's helping me, and it actually, that level

James:

of marketing just convolutes and muddies the water so, so much.

Bryan:

Do you think that's the biggest challenge these days?

Bryan:

'cause you and I, um, were at a conference together, uh, recently and

Bryan:

we purposely walked the halls just to see what was going on together.

Bryan:

Um, like I was in that hall, you know, as a, as a, a brand and a company.

Bryan:

But we were looking around and I've gotta be honest, I didn't know what

Bryan:

80% of those other companies did, and.

Bryan:

It was actually difficult to figure that out just by walking past and reading

Bryan:

the headlines of the exhibition center.

Bryan:

Do you think that's, do you think that's part of the buy-in challenge

Bryan:

at the moment where Yeah, there's, there's a little niche in a niche of

Bryan:

a thing on a thing where it's like, we do this and we save you time.

Bryan:

It's like, oh my God.

Bryan:

You know?

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

How do we, yeah.

Bryan:

How do we get to a very explicit features and benefits sort of

Bryan:

place of understanding where do you fit in the landscape?

Bryan:

Is it even possible to fit you into what I'm doing and is the

Bryan:

investment gonna be worth worthwhile?

Bryan:

You know?

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Or is it just another relationship to manage and a thing that's a nice to have?

Bryan:

Mm-hmm.

Bryan:

But actually, if we're honest, a lot of TA leaders and I,

Bryan:

I think a lot of TA leaders.

Bryan:

Would back me up here, getting a hundred percent of the value

Bryan:

out of what they've already got.

Bryan:

Almost maybe just 20%, 25% of the benefit of what they've already got

Bryan:

is probably the biggest, uh, challenge slash opportunity that they face with.

James:

Yeah, way, way, way back when, when I cut my teeth at the beginning of

James:

my recruitment marketing employer brand career, I was working for the agency.

James:

And the agency sold a big expensive career site platform that many of

James:

you know what I'm talking about.

James:

And I don't have to name names 'cause they didn't pay me, so I'm not

James:

gonna, anyway, they would have these three year contracts and they knew.

James:

They knew 'cause it happened over and over and over again.

James:

Six months before the three year, three year contract was over, they

James:

had to say, okay, time to shift gears.

James:

It's time to resell.

James:

Because a lot of these companies would say, what exactly does this platform do?

James:

You've had it for two and a half years, you bought it, didn't, somebody didn't

James:

else didn't buy it, you bought it.

James:

God only knows what they thought they were buying.

James:

God only knows what they thought they were getting.

James:

God only knows the outcome they were expecting it to achieve.

James:

And here it is, two and a half years later, they're like.

James:

Why am I doing this?

James:

And that speaks volumes.

James:

And it's not the TA leaders are dumb by any stretch.

James:

They are not as technically astute as a developer or the

James:

people selling them sometimes.

James:

But TA leaders have gotten way smarter about technology.

James:

Oh yeah.

James:

But it is the teeniest tiniest slice of their actual day job.

James:

Yeah.

James:

Before we go too far, I wanna remind everybody.

James:

There's a download.

James:

Of course, there's a download.

James:

Have you met us?

James:

Of course, there's a download.

James:

That is what we do.

James:

It's brought to you by Jim.

James:

Thank you, Jim, for sponsoring this episode and this download.

James:

It's all about better questions to ask, better ways to approach

James:

the, the, the, the challenge of buying HR and recruiting tech.

James:

So check out people mba.com and go download it is for free

James:

for subscribers and subscribing is free, so everybody wins.

James:

Go check.

James:

Check that out.

James:

All right, Brian, you were about to say something and I interrupted.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

So before we jump into this, the, the meat and get to some really tangible sort of

Bryan:

guidance on this, do you think part of the challenge at the moment is technology

Bryan:

and innovation is moving so fast?

Bryan:

Oh, yeah.

Bryan:

That if you buy something based on the latest whistle and bell, it's gonna

Bryan:

be outdated in six months anyway.

Bryan:

If that, you know, so, yeah.

Bryan:

So, and given how some of these things take at least six months to install.

Bryan:

Oh my God.

Bryan:

Don't get me started on that, but, um, um, oh my God, I could

Bryan:

say so many things right now.

Bryan:

No.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Be careful.

Bryan:

Careful.

Bryan:

You gotta keep, um, keep making friends, Brian.

Bryan:

Keep

James:

making friends.

James:

That's what this is all about, making friends, teaching

Bryan:

people.

Bryan:

But does that mean that the buying considerations have, have changed, um,

Bryan:

such that, you know, it's not just an update of the, the buying conditions

Bryan:

and methodologies of times gone by.

Bryan:

It's changed.

Bryan:

Um, irrevocably now because of the rate of change of innovation, like, is that Yeah.

Bryan:

Yeah.

James:

Well, look, I think we talked about this episode or two ago.

James:

We talked about the standard budgetary process for TA was

James:

an annual journey, right?

James:

It started in the summer you were ideating, and then in September you

James:

were given a number by your CFO or your finance team, and they said,

James:

Hey, this isn't set in stone, but start with this number and it's.

James:

Generally 10% more or 10% less of what you got at last year.

James:

So there's not a lot of huge deviation.

James:

You go window shopping and you have a lot of demos, and you pick out your

James:

favorites and you make your Christmas list, and then you say, okay, here's

James:

my budget, and that's November and December, Feb, January or February.

James:

They say, okay, here's your actual number.

James:

Go and buy stuff, and you buy it.

James:

And by the time you get through procurement and legal and all the

James:

other fun stuff that comes with buying stuff, it's summer again.

James:

And guess what?

James:

The journey starts again, which means.

James:

It started in, in, in the summer to ideate and to think what you wanted, and you

James:

didn't get the value to the next summer.

James:

Can you just for a moment, remember where we were 12 months ago and, oh, Chachi PTs.

James:

Cool.

James:

Now that looks so quaint.

James:

It looks so sweet.

James:

It's like, oh, it's a little bunny I get to have as a pet.

James:

Oh, now that thing does is amazing and top of a. Thousands of other tools

James:

that sit on top of it or take those same ideas and extrapolate that, and

James:

that's just a teeny, teeny tiny piece.

Bryan:

Mm-hmm.

James:

Of course, HR and TA have got to be terrified that when they make this choice,

James:

they're locking themselves in usually for a multi-year contract, and they have

James:

zero clue what the future looks like.

James:

Yeah.

Bryan:

So

James:

that is daunting.

Bryan:

So just on that right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put forward a thesis.

Bryan:

Granted, I'm gonna say this upfront, it might be slightly biased towards my

Bryan:

approach to business and sort of life in this space, but just, you know,

Bryan:

stress test what I'm saying here.

James:

Yeah,

Bryan:

I think now, you know, we, I used the music analogy, uh, a while back.

Bryan:

I think selecting the, the big, the big pieces of tech that are gonna serve

Bryan:

you the, the best and the most, the 10.

Bryan:

Yeah, the 10 good way of, you know, selecting those individually and

Bryan:

having best practice individuals.

Bryan:

However, if they already have a strategic partnership, and I'll use

Bryan:

Gem as the example 'cause they're a strategic partner of, of happy dance.

Bryan:

I'll try not make this a sales pitch for, for Gem by any means.

Bryan:

But the fact is I have confidence that they, they, um.

Bryan:

Can stand something up really quickly.

Bryan:

It always already integrates with happy dance seamlessly.

Bryan:

And like we get on famously and all the rest of it, if there's a

Bryan:

problem, we figure it out between us.

Bryan:

So we know it stitches together that that's one less challenge.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Headache or problem for the TA leader because they know now they're gonna get

Bryan:

real value over here and real value here and when you plug it together, they're

Bryan:

gonna get an an added, an added bit.

Bryan:

However.

Bryan:

However, for me.

Bryan:

That's all very well and good and it should make implementation faster

Bryan:

and have less headaches, which is a massive aspect of decision

Bryan:

making for the A leagues, I think.

Bryan:

But the Brucey bonus, um, which is a phrase that might not translate to

Bryan:

our American friends, um, the bonus is you've got two tech roadmaps.

Bryan:

It's not just one vendor with here's what we're doing.

Bryan:

You've got two tech roadmaps.

Bryan:

So my advice there is before making a big tech decision.

Bryan:

What is the tech roadmap?

Bryan:

Have you got, um, any confidence that it's not just, um, window

Bryan:

dressing, hopes, hopes and dreams?

Bryan:

You know, is this actually a timeline, time, timeline of commitment?

Bryan:

And how, how have you come to those decisions as a, as a

Bryan:

customer, how can we input and make requests and that kind of stuff.

Bryan:

But if you can now see at least what is the next 12 months of innovation

Bryan:

looking like and how does it contribute, not just to making this.

Bryan:

This investment better, but how does it contribute to the

Bryan:

value of the tech stack overall?

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

For me, that's gonna give you some semblance and some confidence that, okay,

Bryan:

I'm gonna sign a contract here and I get peace of mind for that period of time, and

Bryan:

I know I'm not gonna stand still, and I know everybody's gonna play nice together.

Bryan:

So anyway, in short, my stance is select the big tent poles that you need.

Bryan:

Uh, look for like, so best practice individual vendors, but look for some

Bryan:

element of strategic partnerships.

Bryan:

So, you know, there's cohesion and, you know, there's existing relationships.

Bryan:

And insist on seeing a tangible tech roadmap for each and think about

Bryan:

how that's gonna benefit and align with the priorities of, of what

Bryan:

you're trying to achieve internally.

Bryan:

So, yeah, what do you, yeah.

Bryan:

What do you think?

Bryan:

What's the pushback that makes

James:

me

Bryan:

think it?

James:

No, no, I'm not pushing back, but it does make me take it.

James:

Two things.

James:

One, you're not buying the software today, you're buying the

James:

software of 12 months from now.

James:

That is really what you're buying.

James:

So the demo you see in September is not what you're gonna

James:

get in February, April, may.

James:

Right.

James:

It's a radically different thing.

James:

Mm-hmm.

James:

That is really nice because it says, okay, if I'm paying a vendor, what I'm

James:

paying for is the thing, but what I'm also paying for is for them to keep their eye

James:

open and go, where's everything going?

James:

And to be a partner to move me in that direction.

James:

Mm. The second part, which is really just a build on of that idea is

James:

that it means you need a team that is comfortable with change because.

James:

HR Tech used to be you build it once, it sat there for a couple years and

James:

you just kind of, you knew what it was.

James:

It was like the foundation of the house.

James:

It was like knowing where the bathroom was in the building.

James:

It wasn't changing every two weeks.

James:

It was always there.

James:

We are now living in the world where not only does software change, if you

James:

un, if you've done any research on AI and you realize how much of the

James:

software you're buying was built.

James:

By ai, which means it was built and tested in a fraction of the time, that means

James:

the change rate is happening even faster.

James:

And if you are not willing to change and your platforms do what, what happens then?

James:

And I think that deviation, that splitting from what's really going

James:

on is where a lot of technological and process frictions happen.

Bryan:

So to build on top of that, um, yeah.

Bryan:

I think, I think the, the vision and the clarity of direction of travel

Bryan:

from an innovation perspective, you're absolutely spot on.

Bryan:

That's the thing to interrogate.

Bryan:

And if somebody hasn't got a good answer for that, like where are

Bryan:

you taking this organization from a tech innovation perspective,

Bryan:

what are you trying to achieve?

Bryan:

What are you trying to solve for?

Bryan:

If you ask those questions, you're gonna get some idea of like, do you

Bryan:

really understand me and what I'm trying to achieve inside this organization?

Bryan:

So that's the first thing.

Bryan:

The second thing is, um.

Bryan:

More and more now, the tech stack is the tech stack and the actual technology

Bryan:

is becoming the commodity item.

Bryan:

The differentiator is the relationship, the customer service, the proactive

Bryan:

nature of, of what that looks like and how is, how are you gonna iterate for

Bryan:

continual improvement going forward.

Bryan:

How do you respond to something, a critical challenge, problem, issue?

Bryan:

You know, what does, what does that look like?

Bryan:

I think we are.

Bryan:

We are absolutely sprinting towards an HR tech world where actually it's not

Bryan:

the tools, it's how you use the tools and the customer service layer and the

Bryan:

relationship on top is what's gonna be the differentiator and the thing that makes

Bryan:

a difference between making a tech stack sing and dance and actually get results

Bryan:

or just living with it and sort of, yeah.

Bryan:

Trying to deal a bubble through.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

You know, because, um, let's face it.

Bryan:

In, in HR tech, let's take the last 10 years, I think.

Bryan:

Um, customer service in some respects, I can think of organizations

Bryan:

where that's just a joke.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

You know, customer service, customer like support tickets.

Bryan:

I mean, that's where your soul goes to die in some cases.

Bryan:

Yeah, pretty much.

Bryan:

Um, and that's just not being put up with anymore.

James:

Yeah.

James:

I, I think it's interesting because to me, and the thing I've always

James:

thought about when I look at new technology is when someone.

James:

Design built, coded, whatever, and I know there's a lot of hands that

James:

go into a good piece of software.

James:

No, it's, it's very, it's, let's be fair at this point, it's never one

James:

person's vision put forth into the world.

James:

Mm-hmm.

James:

But even collectively, there was a point of view, right?

James:

There's a difference between, I can think of 10 different platforms that all make.

James:

Perfectly serviceable career sites.

James:

Mm-hmm.

James:

And to me, they're all radically different from one another.

James:

And it's because I have a sense of what that company's point of view is.

James:

And when you have a point of view and you understand that vendor's point of

James:

view, you can kind of get a sense of, oh, so when new technology happens, they

James:

will probably build X, Y, and Z. Mm-hmm.

James:

And that is so powerful because I'm thinking about a platform that I

James:

know and I'm not gonna name because this is, you know, this doesn't.

James:

You know, I don't wanna, I'm not gonna get into that, but they have

James:

a really nice career site platform.

James:

And of course AI happened and everybody kind of went, oh, oh, we gotta have ai.

James:

And so what they did is they built tools that said, Hey, we're

James:

gonna generate blog posts for you.

James:

What?

James:

I mean, I get seeing the AI and I get seeing, hey, there's

James:

this thing that it does.

James:

Yeah.

James:

But what I thought their point of view was, it's a tool that gives the insiders

James:

power and authority and agency over their content and to build it and to do it.

James:

And what they thought their POV was.

James:

The content is easy to build and I, that's when I realized that.

James:

My POV was wrong and that I could not predict what that company was going to do.

James:

And it's really important to have a sense of this company is here

James:

to serve a particular audience, to serve it in a particular way.

James:

There's a reason it exists, there's a reason there's a happy dance,

James:

and there's a reason that there's a phenom and there's a reason.

James:

There's a. Whatever, like name them.

James:

I don't care.

James:

They're all different.

James:

And it's be not because the technology though, that's part of it.

James:

It's because of the point of view.

James:

And I think that's so critical to understanding it.

James:

And for those of you paying along, we had an outline.

James:

We have thrown it away by the way.

James:

It's, this is a really, it was a way more interesting conversation.

James:

If you want more of that structured stuff, it's all on the download.

James:

Go to people nba.com.

James:

It's sponsored by Jim.

James:

Anyway,

Bryan:

Brian, you are

James:

going to react to that.

Bryan:

I, I re, I really, I mean, I couldn't, I couldn't

Bryan:

agree more with that statement.

Bryan:

And there's lots I could say to Wex lyrical about

Bryan:

basically make this into a, an, an advertisement for happy dance.

Bryan:

Which, which I won't, but I think the more interesting thing for our audiences.

Bryan:

Okay.

Bryan:

Give it everything you've just said there.

Bryan:

How redundant is the current traditional conventional RFI process now?

Bryan:

Mm. You know, because.

Bryan:

Everything you've just said makes perfect sense and will resonate

Bryan:

with the audience, I guarantee.

Bryan:

But then when you get an RFI at the moment, like the conventional

Bryan:

RFI off, the off the shelf, the questions that like brutal, they

Bryan:

just don't make any sense anymore.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

You know, and it is brutal and it does take hours and hours and

Bryan:

hours to fill in some of this crap.

Bryan:

Um, and I think there's some fundamental aspects missing.

Bryan:

So digging into like the most tangible concrete.

Bryan:

Guidance and advice on how to fundamentally change

Bryan:

that to deliver value.

Bryan:

What do you think there in terms of RFI process?

Bryan:

What are some of the fundamental question categories missing?

Bryan:

Or do we just blow it up entirely and take a different approach?

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James:

It is so complicated, and by the way, I, I think of in terms

James:

of RFP, I don't know if that's a British American differentiation.

James:

I know RFIs request for information, but it's requests for information

Bryan:

or request for pitch.

Bryan:

Proposal, you know, and, and we see both or proposal.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

So we, we see both.

Bryan:

Sometimes it's just information to begin with.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Then you pass that and then you get to proposal and then maybe

Bryan:

there's a pi, you know, so it could be very convoluted and you know.

James:

Yeah.

James:

So to get to the way the question you're asking is, it, is is hard

James:

because the way procurement, and I'm about to make an enemy here, the

James:

way procurement has structured this model is it is designed to help.

James:

Them figure out ways to create as much competition for this

James:

thing that you want to buy.

James:

As many alternatives and substitutes, if you're an economics major, to say, okay,

James:

this company that you wanna buy from is 3% more than these three other companies.

James:

We can use that information to beat the price down because

James:

their job is not to be nice.

James:

Their job is to lower prices for whatever they're buying.

James:

Mm-hmm.

James:

That is their core remit.

James:

That is what they're there for.

James:

To make sure you don't actually spend 4 cents more than you absolutely have to.

James:

To do that, the most effective and efficient way to do that is to

James:

take any idea that you're buying.

James:

In terms of outcome, in terms of a process, in terms of a tool, whatever it

James:

is, and break it down into as many key components and core elements as possible

James:

to the point where you're thinking, you're, you're asking for a glass of

James:

water and I've given you a cup of oxygen and a cup of hydrogen, and said, what?

James:

What's the problem?

James:

How do you evaluate water?

James:

If I'm giving you hydrogen and oxygen, you can't.

James:

Hmm.

James:

How do you do that?

James:

But that their, their job is not to evaluate quality.

James:

Their job is not to evaluate outcomes.

James:

Their job is to lower price, and the RFP process does not serve hr. The

James:

RFP process does not serve the client.

James:

It serves procurement.

James:

Now I'm a big fan of a guy called Blair Ends.

James:

Who wrote a couple of books about, uh, pricing and, you know, he,

James:

he, he talks about salesmanship.

James:

He also is a hater of procurement on a lot of levels, which I kind of take him.

James:

Um, and it's a Canadian, so we're making this even more multi global.

James:

And so that's what we do.

James:

But his model has always been.

James:

If you are trying to sell something as a vendor and you are forced to

James:

go in the RFP process, what they are saying is, we don't value you

James:

significantly more than someone else.

James:

We wanna put you all in the same exact shape bucket so we can pick

James:

the cheapest or the right one, and that that is the goal of a vendor to

James:

do what they can to just go around that process as best they can.

James:

Building better relationships with the client be, could be showing your

James:

value in a different way or describing the value in a different way.

James:

There's a lot of ways he gets into it and I don't want to kind of, you know,

Bryan:

regurgitate.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

But the argument there is to compare apples with apples though, you know,

Bryan:

the argument is if everyone goes through the same process, we can.

Bryan:

We can judge you against, but it's,

James:

and phenom are not the same.

James:

But in procurement and RFP, they are the same.

James:

What exactly are you comparing?

James:

And I think it's completely unfair, and this is why I go back to the POV.

James:

If you understand what a company is trying to achieve, who it's trying to achieve it

James:

for, how it's trying to achieve it, that is where the conversation needs to be.

James:

Not is the ability to post a, a post six, you know, 2 cents instead of one set.

James:

Like, that's not, so what's, what's

Bryan:

the.

Bryan:

What's the learning and advice to a TA leader listening to this, who's

Bryan:

now just more frustrated than they were at the start of the conversation?

Bryan:

Because I, yeah, I, sorry, I, sorry.

Bryan:

To kind of wrap

James:

you up about your

Bryan:

frustrations with procurement.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

I feel you.

Bryan:

I feel you.

Bryan:

You're right.

Bryan:

I, I, you know the bear a bit.

Bryan:

Are there, is it a case of, is it a case of we, we insist

Bryan:

on two or three questions.

Bryan:

That we want to be featured to be in the the RFI process.

Bryan:

And if that's the case.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Like what, what are we asking to get the real value?

Bryan:

'cause basically what I'm hearing from you is like, it's almost like, um, you know.

Bryan:

Stock car racing, you know, it's like, well all the cars

Bryan:

are the same, aren't they?

Bryan:

You know?

Bryan:

Yeah.

James:

Well, you know, are they, are they, I dunno.

James:

Cars, metaphors are perfect and I love car metaphors because

James:

everybody knows what a car is.

James:

And if you looked at an RFI for a car, you'd say has four wheels, has air in

James:

tires, has a steering wheel, has a radio, has a boot or a trunk, has some seats,

James:

it has a chassis that is crush proof.

James:

It has a, yeah.

James:

Glass.

James:

So I can see out of it.

James:

And you're doing great.

James:

Volvo Ferrari, same thing, right?

James:

Ha ha ha ha.

James:

No.

James:

And in fact, they are not in any way, shape or form substitutes for one another.

James:

I think if you're gonna have to, if you are going to get jammed and stuck in

James:

RFP or RFI process and you have to use the questions they give you, and I get.

James:

You may not be in a position yet to push too far back, and our whole getting

James:

at the seat of the table is kind of part of this process of helping you

James:

push back where it's, it doesn't fit.

James:

I think you have to inject one or two questions, and they have to be

James:

about in the space of 200 words.

James:

Explain your differentiated value.

James:

One of my favorite terms of all time, because that is a loaded term and

James:

it says not, don't tell me what your features are, don't tell me what

James:

features cost, don't tell me, you know what, uh, programming stack you are.

James:

If you integrate with Google or don't integrate Google,

James:

or whatever the hell it is.

James:

Yeah, but more about how do I understand.

James:

How these 3, 5, 10 platforms, which I'll ostensibly do the same

James:

thing, how is yours different?

James:

So that I, as the TA leader, can say, okay, I see all the, the, the,

James:

the details side by side and I'm gonna eliminate three companies

James:

because they don't fit what we need.

James:

Perfect.

James:

Thank you.

James:

That's helpful.

James:

It's about elimination.

James:

Now you narrow it down to who has the story.

James:

We were trying to tell who's got the differentiated value that serves us most.

James:

That is where I would try to lean in injecting questions into an R-F-I-R-F-A.

Bryan:

So I don't, I don't disagree with what you've just said, but I've

Bryan:

got a slightly different take on it.

Bryan:

But Yeah.

Bryan:

But, but um, basically I think we've just both agreed that

Bryan:

procurements are a necessary evil.

Bryan:

They're, so here's what I think, okay.

Bryan:

Procurement, go and do your thing.

Bryan:

Here's the seven or five vendors or suppliers that you know we're, we want

Bryan:

you to consider, put them through the ringer and tell us, pass or fail who

Bryan:

you are comfortable with, and we don't care what questions you ask and what you

Bryan:

put 'em through and all the rest of it.

Bryan:

Wow.

Bryan:

Just tell us who gets on the other side of it and then give us three.

Bryan:

Mm-hmm.

Bryan:

And we'll that we then run our own process and you are out of it because

Bryan:

now you are happy with whoever we choose.

Bryan:

Yeah, and we run our own process because what we wanna know is all of the things

Bryan:

we wanna know, like what's, what's gonna happen when it breaks, what's gonna

Bryan:

happen when we find out it doesn't do that thing that we thought it would do?

Bryan:

What's, yeah, what's gonna happen when, you know, compliance changes and the

Bryan:

law changes and you know what's on your.

Bryan:

Tech roadmap in 12 months time.

Bryan:

Do you play nice with the other vendors and all of that stuff?

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

But procurement, that's got nothing to do with you anymore because

Bryan:

you've given us these three.

Bryan:

You don't care.

Bryan:

And they're all viable.

Bryan:

And I think if, if it's separated from hygiene to common sense, practical,

Bryan:

what's the right solution and what's the relationship looking like?

Bryan:

I think then everybody wins, you know?

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

And then procurement are gonna want to come in at the 11th hour

Bryan:

and try and get, pull 3% knocked off the, you know, whatever.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

But we've all been at that rodeo and we know what that looks like.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

So I would separate it and just make that distinction.

James:

I think that makes perfect sense and I, I, I, I completely abide by that.

James:

I think procurement will have some issues because I think given that their remit

James:

is too lower prices, that power exists on the back end, not the front end, and

James:

so they like to lean a little more on the back end rather than the front end.

James:

That being said, I wanna introduce a new subject, but

James:

taking off on this idea of RFP.

James:

I dunno if you've read the book Jolt, the Jolt Effect, fantastic book.

James:

I highly recommend it for anybody who's in sales.

James:

But it is this idea that they, so covid happened and all these sales calls

James:

suddenly got funneled through some technology like Zoom type tools, right?

James:

So suddenly all these platforms were being able to record sales calls and so you

James:

got Gong and you got some other platforms that were recording all this stuff and

James:

they looked at hundreds of thousands of sales calls over the course of two years.

James:

And they were finally able to say, okay, well tell me, how'd that sales call go?

James:

Did it turn into a sale?

James:

Did it, what did it turn into?

James:

How did it go?

James:

And they were able to do a ton of research on sales.

James:

And you know, it is, you know, did it fail in procurement?

James:

Did it fail here?

James:

Did where, where is the, you know, how did things fall apart?

James:

And one of the biggest takeaways I saw was that even in an RFP

James:

process, which suggests that the company has money in their hand.

James:

They have a need for the thing they're going to buy.

James:

They've got a burning need.

James:

They're going to get it to do happen.

James:

That almost 50% of it goes to a no decision, meaning it just disappeared.

James:

It just got ghosted.

James:

It all fell apart.

James:

They chose no solution.

James:

And the thinking there is if you need a new CRM.

James:

TA leader, do you do all the research on your CRM?

James:

No, probably not.

James:

You probably hand it to a recruiter or an employer, brander or a recruiting

James:

specialist, somebody with a little five and a half seconds worth of

James:

time who can actually do the work.

James:

Now, that person just has been handed a time bomb.

James:

Because you have said you are now in charge of helping me decide which

James:

is the best X, y, Z platform to buy.

James:

You don't know any better than anybody else.

James:

And so you Google, how do I buy a CRM?

James:

How do I buy a website?

James:

How do I, and you get all this information like, ah, I don't know what to do.

James:

And you know that if you pick wrong, you are in trouble.

James:

Because if you pick wrong, the TA leader is, has functionally picked

James:

wrong and they are in trouble.

James:

And that always runs down, downhill back to you.

James:

And so there is an incentive for most companies in these situations to say,

James:

I. I do not wanna make this call.

James:

So what I wanna do is kick the can down the road.

James:

Maybe next year my boss will give this project to someone

James:

else and it won't be on my hip.

James:

It won't be a problem I have to solve.

James:

And I am stunned by the number of companies or deals and

James:

RFPs where it goes nowhere.

James:

And I think the biggest challenge is.

James:

We have, you know, I say we, I'm not a vendor, but companies

James:

have not made it easy to buy.

James:

They have, and I get it.

James:

Like it's, I'm gonna, they come by it fairly procurement's part of it.

James:

Mm-hmm.

James:

How complicated it is, the marketing, all of it.

James:

It's very complicated, but they haven't spent the time making a company feel so

James:

comfortable saying, I absolutely buy that.

James:

And I'd be crazy not to buy that.

James:

And I know it's gonna work and I know I, I can call someone when it doesn't work.

James:

That is where.

James:

The, the real sticking point is, and I think companies need to do

James:

a better job not looking good.

James:

Oh God, this sounds really familiar, but looking specifically different about what

James:

it is they offer to, who it is they offer and how it is different from others.

Bryan:

Yeah, it is interesting.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

React.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is, um, the biggest challenge

Bryan:

we face as an organization is, um.

Bryan:

Our biggest competitor is no decision.

Bryan:

You're absolutely right.

Bryan:

Yeah, exactly.

Bryan:

Exactly.

Bryan:

No decision.

Bryan:

Um, and I do wonder, like what the hell is driving that?

Bryan:

You know, it's politics or, you know, so there isn't, there is another sort

Bryan:

of theory here, um, and I think you alluded to it earlier, keeping your

Bryan:

eye on the ball in terms of what does success look like in terms of, let's

Bryan:

just say we've got this tech stack and it's all stacked, like we want it.

Bryan:

What are we trying to achieve?

Bryan:

What does success look like?

Bryan:

How do you think people, specifically TA leaders need to think in terms of

Bryan:

trying to, um, keep it simple stupid in terms of what does success look like

Bryan:

and create and if, if it's possible to get alignment in internally and get

Bryan:

everybody bought in to what that is?

Bryan:

'cause I think if you can achieve that, and if you say it fast, it sounds easy.

Bryan:

Um, then in theory the buying decisions and bringing people along with what

Bryan:

you're trying to achieve should be easier, but yeah, easy said than done.

James:

Right?

James:

Exactly.

James:

And I think most TA leaders rationally, rationally, 'cause

James:

what else are you gonna do?

James:

They rationally say, I'm buying this product to help me do X, and

James:

doing X has X, Y, and Z kind of ramifications and outcomes and outputs

James:

and changes to my KPIs, and moves the needle in all sorts of various ways.

James:

And they focus.

James:

Almost exclusively on that.

James:

And I think the missing piece to all of this, and Brian, I know you got some

James:

stories for, what I'm about to suggest is that it's all well and good if rationally

James:

buying this tool gets you those outcomes.

James:

But what happens when your team doesn't want to use it when

James:

they've decided, this is stupid.

James:

I don't wanna do this, I'm not gonna use this stuff.

James:

This is, I like the way I used to do it.

James:

This is, why are we changing so much?

James:

If you can't get your team excited for this change and for this new technology.

James:

Don't spend the money.

Bryan:

Oh, absolutely.

Bryan:

I mean, you could, you can take that philosophy and principle

Bryan:

into every aspect, can't you?

Bryan:

You know?

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

I mean, how many times have you seen an employer brand be built in isolation,

Bryan:

and then you expect hiring managers and recruiters to be your biggest

Bryan:

champion and help you activate with Don't make me cry, vi and excitement.

Bryan:

It's not the forum for me to cry, but it's a, you know, it's the perfect analogy.

Bryan:

Those that you know, and then wha wha you know, it launches

Bryan:

and people are just like, what?

Bryan:

You want me to do what?

Bryan:

No, no, no.

Bryan:

I'm, I'm gonna carry on saying the same thing that I've been

Bryan:

saying 'cause it works and da da.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

So resistance to change is just a good old, fundamental human thing that

Bryan:

we all just need to sort of accept.

Bryan:

Unless of course, unless of course you start where you tend to end.

Bryan:

Ah.

Bryan:

And you bring people along and say, Hey, we have an opportunity

Bryan:

to improve things around here.

Bryan:

What are your biggest pain points, frustrations, challenges, issues?

Bryan:

If we had a tool, what would you want it to do?

Bryan:

Like, how can I make your life better?

Bryan:

Yeah, yeah.

Bryan:

And then if you bring people along with, do you know what you just said?

Bryan:

Well, that's going into our RFI process and I'm gonna solve that for you.

Bryan:

'cause I think that's really interesting.

Bryan:

Oh, by the way, we've narrowed it down to three.

Bryan:

Here's what they said in answer to your questions.

Bryan:

What do you think is the best answer here?

Bryan:

And like, is there any other follow up?

Bryan:

You know, bring people along.

Bryan:

Then you know, you know great people.

Bryan:

Some great people will deliver something and present something, and you walk away

Bryan:

thinking, wow, they're smart, you know?

Bryan:

But the best people, they'll deliver something and the audience walks

Bryan:

away feeling smarter themselves.

Bryan:

Yes.

Bryan:

Right.

Bryan:

You know, how do you, how do you create an environment where that's the outcome?

Bryan:

And I think, you know, that's, that's part of the challenge.

Bryan:

And, and like we've seen this and that's part, that's partly the vendor and

James:

that's partly the TA leader's job.

James:

That is a experience.

James:

Absolutely.

James:

Absolutely.

James:

So,

Bryan:

so hold on Brian.

Bryan:

Nuts and bolts.

Bryan:

Tactical, go.

Bryan:

Okay, go ahead.

Bryan:

Go ahead.

Bryan:

Nuts and bolts.

Bryan:

Practical, tangible time of, you know, what are some of the things that.

Bryan:

Vendors and suppliers won't tell you.

Bryan:

And like, what are, what are some ways to hack this process?

Bryan:

You know, what are, what are the critical things to look out for?

Bryan:

The questions, the killer questions to ask and to make sure are nailed on when

Bryan:

you're making these buying decisions.

James:

Uh, there are so many, and then it is, it is a, a game of

James:

asking better questions very often.

James:

Here's the challenge.

James:

You are a TA leader.

James:

You have incredibly deep knowledge of your company.

James:

Its politics, its inner workings, the processes, how it all fits.

James:

You know your company inside and out, but you don't know a hundred companies.

James:

You just know the one.

James:

Maybe you know what you used to do three years ago, four years ago.

James:

The vendor has a broad.

James:

Perspective.

James:

'cause they talk to five companies just like you every single day.

James:

And they're asking them generally the same kinds of questions.

James:

So for me, as you're, 'cause I think you're, you know, that, that sense of

James:

relationship and understanding what their point of view is and understanding

James:

what this is not the nuts and bolts of what does it do and how does it do it.

James:

'cause I think you're smart enough to kind of, in a demo in

James:

a q and a session, suss that out.

James:

Right.

James:

The real question is, tell me how most people use this.

James:

Tell me how other companies find success with this.

James:

What do they like about this tool?

James:

What do they not like about this tool?

James:

Where is the challenge here?

James:

And I think that starts to open the conversation up a bit, and I think the

James:

other side of that conversation is, can you tell me two or three other companies

James:

who do something very similar to you and how they are different and who they are?

James:

Perfect for.

James:

This gets back to POV.

James:

It gets back to your position, your differentiated value.

James:

There are a dozens of scheduling tools.

James:

They can't all be the same.

James:

Can they there?

James:

Some of them are perfect fits for somebody, but if they all say we're the

James:

best scheduling tool, how do you pick?

James:

And those are the kinds of questions that get beyond the, Hey, was this

James:

built on j plus or c plus plus or is this a blah, blah, blah, blah.

James:

I don't know, Ruby on Rails.

James:

Honestly, if they even use Ruby on Rails anymore, I don't even know.

James:

Like that, who cares?

James:

What you need to know is, is this the right fit for me and my situation?

James:

And if you can pull out from them understanding one, what's your broader

James:

perspective on what's going on and, and with all the people we talk to.

James:

And two, how do you differ?

James:

You are way ahead than most people buying tech right now.

Bryan:

So.

Bryan:

I think to build on top of that, I think the, the one thing that I would appreciate

Bryan:

as on the vendor side and I advise TA leaders to be sort of upfront with is

James:

yeah,

Bryan:

talk about, it's almost like the sort of employee brand

Bryan:

give and get approach as well.

Bryan:

Like, you know, talk about the harsh realities, not just the sort of.

Bryan:

Strengths, benefits, opportunities.

Bryan:

Tell us about the politics of like, what's it like to deal with this organization

Bryan:

and what we're gonna need as a partner and as a strategic alliance to get

Bryan:

things over the line and get things done.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

The challenges that we're gonna face, you know, the sort of politics,

Bryan:

the difficulty with our tech.

Bryan:

Uh.

Bryan:

It company and internal divisions, all, all that kinda stuff.

Bryan:

Be be clear.

Bryan:

Be clear with that and get some sort of response.

Bryan:

Tell me a story when you've overcome something similar to

Bryan:

the culture that I'm describing.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

You know, and you know, our company is this size where, you know, we're we,

Bryan:

we were started in Japan, you know, these are our principles and these,

Bryan:

these are our, we're highly regulated.

Bryan:

We're

James:

not well regulated.

James:

Yeah.

James:

We're very collaborative.

James:

We're not, we're very consensus driven.

James:

We're very autonomous.

James:

Exactly.

James:

There's so many ways.

James:

Yeah.

Bryan:

All of that stuff and you know, tell me a story when, tell

Bryan:

me a story when, and then one of my favorites actually is, um, I

Bryan:

wanna speak to one of your customers that have had a, a significant

Bryan:

problem in the last six months.

Bryan:

And for me, I got a lot of vendors just like will come out in cold sweats.

Bryan:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bryan:

With that.

Bryan:

But you know what, it's so, it's such a great opportunity to understand

Bryan:

how you deal with challenges.

Bryan:

You know, was it, was it responsive?

Bryan:

Like, was it, you know, collaborative in, in navigating

Bryan:

a challenge or the rest of it?

Bryan:

Like how was it, um, solved for, what's the relationship like afterwards?

Bryan:

Mm-hmm.

Bryan:

Everybody.

Bryan:

Let's, let's be clear.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Bryan:

Everybody has a customer.

Bryan:

Like that, where they've had a significant problem in the last 12 months.

Bryan:

Right?

Bryan:

Take that, and it's not that problem.

Bryan:

It's how you solve the problem and move forward with a

Bryan:

relationship that's positive for me, that's, and there's no such,

James:

there's no such thing as a perfect engagement, right?

James:

There's no such thing as a perfect install.

James:

It doesn't, they're not Lego pieces, man.

James:

They don't just click and you're done.

James:

There's a million.

James:

Elements that can go wrong.

James:

So if the question isn't, will it go wrong?

James:

And, but the question is, I know it will go wrong on some level.

James:

How will we overcome?

James:

It's not about, I need to find that one client I had from six months

James:

ago where we solved the big problem.

James:

This is, hey, I wanna share with you my client list so you can

James:

talk about where do the challenges happen and how do we overcome them?

James:

I think that makes perfect sense.

Bryan:

Absolutely.

Bryan:

Plus, uh, if you are an organization in transition and change.

Bryan:

Um, and you're signing a three year contract.

Bryan:

You want some Yeah.

Bryan:

Comfort that your partner can pivot.

Bryan:

And be agile and the world might be different inside your

Bryan:

organization in six months.

Bryan:

Absolutely.

Bryan:

How have you dealt with that in the past?

Bryan:

You know, and it's a great way to eek out any hidden costs or any

Bryan:

challenges that might, you know, delay things or as I say, cost you

Bryan:

more money or all that kind of stuff.

Bryan:

Like you wanna know the rocky road of if we're in this together Yes.

Bryan:

How's it gonna feel?

Bryan:

When things go wrong or we need to pivot and change, or we need to

Bryan:

suddenly scale up massively, which is a nice problem for any vendor,

Bryan:

but have you got the bandwidth?

Bryan:

You know, all of those things.

Bryan:

Um, yeah, that makes sense.

Bryan:

If you have those conversations and people haven't got a war story or

Bryan:

a very good example of how they've dealt with something similar, then you

Bryan:

know, it could come down to chemistry.

Bryan:

It could come down to like the whistles and bells and that kind of stuff.

Bryan:

Personally, I think it's a really important aspect

Bryan:

when buying tech these days.

James:

Yeah.

James:

Well look, if this has not been the best 40 minute conversation you've had

James:

about involving the words procurement, uh, R-F-P-R-F-I, I don't, I don't

James:

know what, what are you listening to?

James:

'cause this is the best one I've ever heard.

James:

No question.

James:

So if you've enjoyed this and you want more of the nuts and bolts and

James:

how do you do it, and the questions to ask, go check out the download.

James:

It's people NBA.

James:

It's all brought to you by Jim this week.

James:

Thanks so much, Jim, for being a sponsor for this stuff.

James:

We're doing it, we're moving the needle.

James:

We're trying to get everybody, all TA leaders to understand that it's, you.

James:

Don't just get your seat at the table by flipping a switch.

James:

It is a million little pieces and a million little processes, and this

James:

is, and being able to make smart choices and ask tough questions and

James:

build great relationships with your vendors is actually an element.

James:

You're, you're, you're building partners.

James:

If that's what it's really all about.

James:

This is how you do it.

James:

So hopefully this conversation, this download has been super, super valuable.

James:

Um.

James:

We're, we're just gonna keep plugging along and we hope that

James:

you get something out of it.

James:

And if this is in fact the best conversation you've ever heard about

James:

procurement you have, now, of course it's James, of course it's, but now you're

James:

illegally obligated to tell someone.

James:

That's what I'm saying.

James:

It's the law.

James:

I'd not in charge.

James:

Somebody just wrote a executive order saying it's true.

James:

So it must be true.

James:

So please, if this is a useful conversation and you like the

James:

idea of helping TA everywhere, get their seat at the table, let

James:

people know about people MBA.

James:

Brian, any final thoughts before we wrap this thing up?

Bryan:

So I would, I would, specifically with this conversation, I'd love

Bryan:

some feedback from TA leaders.

Bryan:

We've covered a hell of a lot more about this topic in the download.

Bryan:

Obviously, there's some real practical guidance in there, which I think

Bryan:

is like superb, but you know what?

Bryan:

I really, really, really would love?

Bryan:

I want some feedback from our procurement friends, so please, ta leaders go, go

Bryan:

and digest this, and either we've created monsters or maybe we've just greased some

Bryan:

wheels and you can make more friends.

Bryan:

But either way, I'd love some feedback from your procurement friends.

Bryan:

Is this moving the agenda forward or is it, um, just getting one

Bryan:

over on your procurement buddy?

Bryan:

So I want, I want some feedback and I look forward to that.

Bryan:

Brian, I didn't know you needed more friends, but it's,

James:

it's good to know.

James:

I'll, I'll introduce you around.

James:

Thanks James.

James:

It is procurement.

James:

Thank you.

James:

Alright everybody, thanks for listening and we will see you next week.

James:

Uh, we're having a bigger conversation.

James:

We've got a really interesting downloadable next week.

James:

Yes, that's all the teasing I'm gonna give you right now.

James:

So check it out.

James:

Subscribe to the people mda.com and we will see you.

James:

Next time.

James:

Bye.

VO Lady:

It looks like Brian made some decisions on the worldwide headquarters.

VO Lady:

Do you think he'll give James A. Key or even the address?

VO Lady:

Anyway, thanks for watching.

VO Lady:

If this really was the best conversation you've ever seen involving the words

VO Lady:

procurement and RFP, you are legally obligated to share it with someone.

VO Lady:

It's not some city regulation, it's the law, so you might as well do it now.

VO Lady:

Tell them to go to people nba.com and subscribe.

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About the Podcast

The People MBA
Helping Talent leaders Get Their Seat At The Table
For talent acquisition leader who are trying to get their seat at the table, Bryan and James have your backs. Every week, we'll dive into a new topic and often have a guide, tool, script, or examples to empower you to show your leadership how valuable you and yorur team really is.

Brought to you by Bryan Adams of HappyDance and James Ellis of Employer Brand Labs.
To get the downloads, subscribe for free at PeopleMBA.com.

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James Ellis