So Good They Can't Ignore You: LinkedIn for Recruiting
The LinkedIn Mastery Episode: Strategies to Elevate Your Team
In this milestone 10th episode of The People MBA, Brian and James tackle how talent leaders can strategically leverage LinkedIn beyond just posting jobs.
Forget algorithmic hacks and posting schedules - this episode dives into how to use LinkedIn to generate real influence within your company and showcase your team's strategic value. Learn why employee stories outperform corporate content, how to build partnerships with marketing instead of fighting for control, and practical ways to demonstrate ROI that leadership can't ignore.
Key takeaways include:
- Why quality content that serves multiple business objectives beats checkbox posting
- How to use LinkedIn analytics to prove your strategic value
- Creating content that highlights the people behind your products
- Building an employee advocacy program that serves both recruitment and corporate goals
- Practical strategies for gaining LinkedIn influence even when marketing "owns" the channel
Plus, download their free 20+ page guide packed with actionable LinkedIn strategies at PeopleMBA.com.
Brought to you by Happy Dance Career Sites and Employer Brand Labs.
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Transcript
Well, it's been 22 years, 22 very long years in which we have used it.
Speaker:We have played with it.
Speaker:We have worked in it.
Speaker:We have lived in it.
Speaker:And today we will finally answer the question.
Speaker:What is LinkedIn?
Speaker:No, not really.
Speaker:We're actually going to get, we are going to talk about LinkedIn, but we
Speaker:all freaking know what LinkedIn is.
Speaker:It's the big blue.
Speaker:Everybody knows LinkedIn.
Speaker:Everybody lives on LinkedIn.
Speaker:But that doesn't mean everybody's thinking strategically about how to use LinkedIn,
Speaker:how to leverage it, how to leverage it for their team, for their function, but also
Speaker:for their own personal brand and their journey to getting a seat at the table.
Speaker:And that is what we're going to talk about.
Speaker:LinkedIn mastery, not.
Speaker:Algorithmic bullshit.
Speaker:We're talking about how to use it strategically to make sure everybody
Speaker:sees how incredibly valuable you and your team are so that you get your
Speaker:seat at the table right after this.
Speaker:It's true that LinkedIn has 1 billion users, but it also
Speaker:has these two knuckleheads.
Speaker:So I guess it evens out.
Speaker:Welcome to the People MBA.
Speaker:This episode on getting more out of recruiting's favorite social channel
Speaker:is brought to you by Happy Dance Career Sites and Employer Brand Labs.
Speaker:Let's go check the voicemail.
Speaker:You've reached the People MBA.
Speaker:We're out shopping for a new global headquarters.
Speaker:So go ahead and talk after the beep.
Speaker:Hi, Brian and James.
Speaker:It's Alison Kelly from Dexcom.
Speaker:I know we agree.
Speaker:LinkedIn is a core tool for recruiting and employment branding.
Speaker:We found it beneficial to align our internal teams on content strategy.
Speaker:I'm curious, what are some additional ways that we can increase our impact
Speaker:and elevate our role using LinkedIn?
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Brian, I don't know if you can believe it.
Speaker:It's our anniversary.
Speaker:It's episode 10.
Speaker:What'd you get me?
Speaker:Double digits.
Speaker:I know.
Speaker:I got you a winning smile and I'm going to
Speaker:let you do a lot of the talking.
Speaker:Just this once.
Speaker:I appreciate that.
Speaker:That's very kind of you.
Speaker:Actually, as the guy who edited the first couple of videos, it's
Speaker:a pretty terrifyingly even split how much we both talk a lot.
Speaker:Like there's no kind of like one dominating the other with
Speaker:the, a very rare exception.
Speaker:But, uh, thanks.
Speaker:I think, uh, I think I'll, I'll pass that, that gift right back to you and
Speaker:let you do some talking today too.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Thanks.
Speaker:But I'm going to challenge that because I think you, you probably
Speaker:used about 150 words a minute.
Speaker:So I probably, I pause and I'm like painfully slow sometimes.
Speaker:So, you know, anyway.
Speaker:I am just looking at the wave form, which just shows who is
Speaker:speaking and for how long and not necessarily how many words per minute.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's not a competition, but I think you're winning.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:That's fine.
Speaker:I'll take that.
Speaker:I guess.
Speaker:If there's something to win, sure.
Speaker:I'll win that.
Speaker:Anyway, enough chitchat.
Speaker:Let's talk about LinkedIn.
Speaker:This week, we've got a big, big, you're right, big, big download.
Speaker:It's a big 20 pluser.
Speaker:It's serious work.
Speaker:So make sure to go download it over at peoplemba.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:It is free if you're subscribing.
Speaker:If you're not subscribing.
Speaker:Subscribe for free.
Speaker:How hard is that?
Speaker:It's just your email address.
Speaker:Come on, you give it out to everybody else.
Speaker:Give it up to us.
Speaker:I guess, uh, that is the worst sales pitch, but you get my drift.
Speaker:Look, you know, us, we're just here to help you get your seat at the table.
Speaker:We're here to help you elevate.
Speaker:We're here to help you show off.
Speaker:We're here to help you get what you and your team absolutely needed this week.
Speaker:We're diving deep onto LinkedIn, not just how to use algo hacks and how to.
Speaker:Figure out what's the best time to post, which I think is total crap.
Speaker:This is about how do you use what is arguably the most important and powerful
Speaker:tool inside the recruiter and employer brand of arsenal to actually not just
Speaker:generate clicks and likes and views, but to generate influence inside your company.
Speaker:That is what we do.
Speaker:That we're here to help you get influenced so you can grab your seat at the table.
Speaker:This week's episode comes with a big, big.
Speaker:Big download.
Speaker:It's 20 plus page, or it is a serious tome of a document on
Speaker:strategic thinking around LinkedIn.
Speaker:Go check it out over at people.
Speaker:MBA.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:It is free.
Speaker:If you subscribe, if you don't subscribe, subscribe for free.
Speaker:And then it is also free.
Speaker:How many times can he say the word free?
Speaker:We'll find out.
Speaker:It's like, it's like that commercial.
Speaker:Brian, do you have a commercial of the tootsie roll pop
Speaker:commercial where the owl goes?
Speaker:How many licks does it take to get in the center of a tootsie roll pop?
Speaker:I have never seen that happen in my life.
Speaker:Every American above the age of 40 is like, Oh yeah, I know that one.
Speaker:Anyway, uh, it feels like that.
Speaker:How many times can you say the word free?
Speaker:Before it's all over.
Speaker:This week's episode is brought to you by Happy Dance Career Sites,
Speaker:makers of some pretty, pretty cool career sites that are AI driven.
Speaker:Also by Employer Brand Labs for people and companies who can't afford to mess
Speaker:around with their employer brand anymore.
Speaker:So check those wonderful companies out.
Speaker:And for right now, we're going to dive into LinkedIn mastery.
Speaker:Ooh, that's a good word.
Speaker:Mastery.
Speaker:Brian, as the author of primary author of this tome, set us up.
Speaker:Answer me this, 22 years in, is LinkedIn still important?
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:I mean, the simple answer is, is yes.
Speaker:And I think it's getting even more important.
Speaker:It's a cornerstone of every, um, organization's digital footprint
Speaker:when it comes to employer brand.
Speaker:And actually, arguably that's now expanding at such a rate of knots.
Speaker:I would say.
Speaker:Um, it's the, it's the premium primary channel for brand building
Speaker:and business growth full stop, you know, and there's nearly a billion
Speaker:members, including 4 out of 5, um.
Speaker:business decision makers.
Speaker:Um, I think it's very easy to argue that it's a crew.
Speaker:It's crucial for reaching quality talent on influential audiences.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:So why does he get such a bad rap?
Speaker:I mean, I know that when I talk to social media people, they're super hyped for
Speaker:Tiktok and all the fun stuff, and they still think Facebook is still a thing.
Speaker:And they all seem to look at LinkedIn with A little bit of disdain, like
Speaker:Facebook's boring cousin, right?
Speaker:Like this is like the thing they have to fill because someone said
Speaker:they have to because their job says they have to, but they don't care
Speaker:and they don't treat it special.
Speaker:They don't treat it as interesting or as a separate thing.
Speaker:Where does this kind of disdain or kind of dislike come from?
Speaker:But I think if you look at TikTok, you look at Instagram and Facebook
Speaker:and everything else, it's that they're phenomenally successful social media
Speaker:platforms for the masses and for general audiences to talk about anything and
Speaker:everything in their, in their niche.
Speaker:What LinkedIn have done very successfully over the years is carved a huge niche
Speaker:for themselves as the place to be and to have to be as organizations or
Speaker:professionals, which means the mindset and the intentions and the focus.
Speaker:around why you are on there in the first place, and the type of messaging that
Speaker:you put in out there is very specific to a professional business audience.
Speaker:Um, so the intention and aspiration and the curation of content there
Speaker:is very focused around brand building and business growth.
Speaker:Uh, if you engage with an audience, The chances are they're either a very
Speaker:qualified potential customer or a very qualified potential candidate.
Speaker:And that is worth a hell of a lot of money to organizations such that
Speaker:they spend millions and millions of dollars and pounds every year.
Speaker:They write that check because they know they have to.
Speaker:Now, is it right in a check to Um, Darth Vader and the Death Star.
Speaker:Is it the sort of necessary evil?
Speaker:Maybe, but you can't argue with the fact that, you know, employee shared content
Speaker:on there gets two times higher, um, engagement than just corporate posts.
Speaker:Um, you know, making LinkedIn indispensable for authentic
Speaker:trusted communication when it comes to employer brands.
Speaker:Um, you know, and there's a million stats out there.
Speaker:We don't have to, so.
Speaker:Quote them all or sort of try and fight the business case for for linked in.
Speaker:Um, but they do tout the fact that if you're on their marketing, your
Speaker:organization and your employer brand, you'll see a 43 percent lower hiring
Speaker:cost, whether that's true or not.
Speaker:I don't know, but it's definitely a very important part of the mix.
Speaker:Yeah, that's a number you have to look at with like, I can generate
Speaker:those numbers to if you squint.
Speaker:Really, really hard in a very particular way and stand on one foot on the
Speaker:third Tuesday of every second month.
Speaker:Um, I also want to point out that LinkedIn is one of the very very few social media
Speaker:channels That doesn't allow anonymous content for the most part that people
Speaker:have names associated with that post and Despite the fact that I get at least two
Speaker:or three bs spamming scamming posts every single day in my dms Uh, these are people
Speaker:who have zero followers and go, Hey, my boss wants me to ask you about that.
Speaker:No, you don't.
Speaker:This is all lies.
Speaker:But for the most part, this is a channel in which these are, this is
Speaker:their name and this is their picture.
Speaker:So it feels a lot more authentic, which means there's
Speaker:a lot more you can do with it.
Speaker:It's, it's.
Speaker:It's tough to try and sell, uh, Timmy one, two, three.
Speaker:I like to dance, you know, on tick tock, which who the heck is that guy?
Speaker:But if I see someone on LinkedIn and they have a picture and they have a connection,
Speaker:I know that they are a real person.
Speaker:And to your other point that it's the place where.
Speaker:Your buyers are.
Speaker:It's the place where candidates are.
Speaker:Not only that, the way LinkedIn works is that it is truly a network where if
Speaker:it's not your buyer or your candidate, they know your buyer, your candidate.
Speaker:They can introduce you to your buyer.
Speaker:Can they can pass content up to that buyer candidate?
Speaker:And it truly is an incredibly powerful network.
Speaker:Is there any kind of current challenges that you're seeing with how people
Speaker:and how T. A. leaders or just T. A. functions in general are using linked in?
Speaker:Is there something, is there something we've been doing for too long?
Speaker:Is there something we should be doing that's brand new?
Speaker:What are some some things we can be doing to start to elevate our use of like that?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, Christ, we could go down this rabbit hole for hours
Speaker:and hours and hours and hours.
Speaker:Um, you know, we could call out some cliches of the we're hiring
Speaker:posts and like, you know, you know, so I think to be useful and to be.
Speaker:To be a make this conversation really effective for our audience, you know,
Speaker:let's try and keep it simple and focusing on sort of the basics, the things that
Speaker:can, you know, sort of, um, a low bar to achieve what high impact if you
Speaker:implement them, you know, so I've run through a couple and you tell me whether
Speaker:that whether they resonate or not.
Speaker:I think the first thing is.
Speaker:Focusing on employee stories for the best part is probably the
Speaker:most effective thing that I've seen over many, many, many years.
Speaker:And the stats and the numbers and the, um, the, the data proves this,
Speaker:but most organizations, a lot of organizations anyway, are still putting
Speaker:out corporate messages that are, um, shiny and on behalf of the company.
Speaker:And yeah, um, we're actually, people want the real authentic voice of employees.
Speaker:And that they want to see more storytelling, not, um, facts and
Speaker:data and corporate, corporate voice.
Speaker:I think the second thing is, Um, in a world where we've got to prove a return
Speaker:on investment, cutting straight to the chase saying we're hiring or look at
Speaker:this vacant role is, I mean, and you can make that content really interesting,
Speaker:but it's all too tempting to cut to the chase and go straight for the jugular
Speaker:in terms of, um, the quick transactional return on investment where actually,
Speaker:um, you know, it's been proven that a balanced content strategy Let's say 40
Speaker:percent recruitment, 40 percent employer brand, um, brand awareness building.
Speaker:And increasing reach and then maybe 20 percent thought leadership is a much
Speaker:better mix, you know, and I think it can be, it's harder to prove the return
Speaker:on investment with content that is designed solely to, um, extend brand
Speaker:reach influence and sentiment, um, But I think we're in a world where we
Speaker:have to start playing the long game.
Speaker:Um, and, you know, it's just, it's just the world we're in, where if you,
Speaker:if you see a brand, you get to know a brand, you have an affinity with
Speaker:a brand, you're much more likely to engage when the time is right, you know.
Speaker:So, so I think, I think that's, That's probably the biggest one actually, um,
Speaker:having a content strategy with multiple layers, uh, not just recruitment content
Speaker:when you're looking for candidates.
Speaker:I think, I think, you know, this might be stating the obvious now, and I think
Speaker:you've mentioned this a couple of times on, uh, some previous episodes, James,
Speaker:but prioritizing video and interactive posts, um, you know, behind the scenes
Speaker:content, um, Content series posts that link together that tell great stories.
Speaker:You've got to optimize for the platform now.
Speaker:It's clearly pushing video.
Speaker:The world is moving in that direction, you know, and I still
Speaker:think we see a lot of text based posts or even just flat imagery.
Speaker:And, you know, They've got limited effectiveness these days, right?
Speaker:I want to kind of dig in a little bit because I look, there's clearly
Speaker:an instinct in our industry to say, if the mix is 40 percent recruiting
Speaker:posts, 40 percent employer brand posts, 20 percent thought leadership posts.
Speaker:Okay, let's get some recruiting posts.
Speaker:We're hiring, we're hiring, we're hiring.
Speaker:Okay, let's get some employer branding posts.
Speaker:We're great.
Speaker:We're great.
Speaker:We're great.
Speaker:But let's get some thought leadership posts.
Speaker:Hey, we asked her CFO what they should do.
Speaker:They should make some money.
Speaker:Like it just feels so surface level perfunctory, um, check in a box.
Speaker:It feels like so much of our industry.
Speaker:And I I'm, I'm stealing an idea and I wish I could credit.
Speaker:Cause I saw the post on LinkedIn and I don't remember who posted it, but this
Speaker:idea that we've, we've over efficient, efficient ties ourselves to death.
Speaker:We're so focused on two LinkedIn posts a day or four LinkedIn posts
Speaker:a week that we stopped to wonder.
Speaker:Is it a good post?
Speaker:Is it a useful post?
Speaker:You, you're right.
Speaker:I, I, I, I bang the drum against how much I hate we're hiring posts so much because
Speaker:it says nothing, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't say that you aren't hiring.
Speaker:You should say it, but you should tell a story.
Speaker:You should be connected to your brand.
Speaker:It should be focused on something more than completely transactional or you're
Speaker:just becoming a transactional company, which is synonymous with being a
Speaker:commodity, which is nobody's way to win.
Speaker:Yeah, I entirely agree with that.
Speaker:I think quality over quantity every time, unfortunately, to be really
Speaker:competitive, especially for the global brands who have global brand competitors.
Speaker:Um, the reality is you need to do both.
Speaker:You need to have a certain amount of quantity and it needs
Speaker:to be of the highest quality.
Speaker:And to your point, you know, you can hit the metrics of the numbers of.
Speaker:Posts.
Speaker:You can have the optimum time.
Speaker:Yeah, you can, you can do that.
Speaker:But I think a cohesive brand approach, and obviously I think this is a nice
Speaker:segue into sort of, um, the next sort of part of our conversation as well is
Speaker:aligning the recruitment and employer brand objectives with, um, with corporate
Speaker:branding such that it's a branded experience and I think there's such an
Speaker:opportunity to do a better job here.
Speaker:You know.
Speaker:We've done a number of campaigns over the years where there's been a product
Speaker:launch that the entire company is really excited about and it's very important
Speaker:to, you know, for the next, um, share price call and all of that good stuff.
Speaker:And then the campaign right next to it dovetailed with absolute cohesion
Speaker:is, is the employer brand story of the people behind the product.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I've seen at least two instances that I can think of where it turns out the
Speaker:people behind the product campaigns outshine and outperform the other so
Speaker:many times over, it's unbelievable.
Speaker:And if that doesn't tell us something, um, you know, we've
Speaker:got to learn, learn from that.
Speaker:So, so the lesson there, you know, what's the point in saying that if
Speaker:you do that in a coordinated way?
Speaker:Um, use the fact that the people behind the product angle really,
Speaker:really works and go into that expecting to further the reach influence and
Speaker:sentiment of your employee brand.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:But use it as a sharp tool to sell more products and reach more customers as
Speaker:well, because it's there for the taking.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think the biggest mistake is when people post to LinkedIn, they think
Speaker:it's an either or, either or situation.
Speaker:Either I am talking about how great our CFO is, or I am talking about why
Speaker:it's great to work here, and you're like, doesn't your CFO work here?
Speaker:Aren't they employed?
Speaker:But these are the same things.
Speaker:Why are you bifurcating them for some weird abstract reason?
Speaker:If someone likes working here and they do good work.
Speaker:put them together, right?
Speaker:Any post done well should be promoting the corporate brand, the consumer
Speaker:brand and the employer people brand.
Speaker:Maybe not in exactly equal amounts, but why not?
Speaker:But why not shoot for that?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:You know, the final the final point I'll add to your original question
Speaker:is linked in again, better at producing really good analytics now.
Speaker:And I would suggest that not, not a lot of organizations are using those analytics,
Speaker:the full potential, um, because, you know, in a, he said, she said, I think
Speaker:you think conversation, which we all have, uh, inside our organizations,
Speaker:getting the data out and demonstrating, like, Okay, where's the best?
Speaker:Where's the most reach?
Speaker:Where's the most engagement?
Speaker:Where's the most comments that have really moved the needle on sentiment?
Speaker:What's created so much engagement and a conversion rate of click throughs
Speaker:to our careers sites or our product pages on our corporate sites, etc.?
Speaker:It's there to be done, and it should be a continual loop of improvement.
Speaker:There's no excuse now.
Speaker:Um, but it's never the tools, it's always how you use the tools, the
Speaker:strategy you apply against it.
Speaker:It's a bird.
Speaker:It's a plane.
Speaker:Nope.
Speaker:It's the spot where we suggest you subscribe to the People MBA, either
Speaker:on YouTube or your podcast player.
Speaker:All downloads are available at peoplemba.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:If you're getting something useful out of it, tell someone.
Speaker:They might even thank you.
Speaker:I, I think I've done so many LinkedIn audits, competitive audits,
Speaker:the number of companies who have a clear one post a week quota.
Speaker:And every once in a while there's quarterly results.
Speaker:So they throw in a second quote, you know, second post in the week one,
Speaker:it's just so kind of pretty, so kind of like, Oh, I guess we have to do it.
Speaker:But the, the problem is, is that you're posting so little,
Speaker:your analytics coming back.
Speaker:Aren't useful.
Speaker:You start to think if I only post this, this is how much
Speaker:audience I'm supposed to get.
Speaker:No, that sets the bar poorly.
Speaker:This is a place where you should be posting twice a day.
Speaker:You should, or you can be posting twice a day.
Speaker:This is a place where you could be considering how do you throw spaghetti
Speaker:against the wall to see what sticks, not because you don't know, but
Speaker:because you want to know, because you're experimenting intentionally.
Speaker:There are so many different ways to say it.
Speaker:Uh, I have a friend of mine, not to toot my own horn,
Speaker:because I think it's a really.
Speaker:weird horn to toot.
Speaker:But what was that?
Speaker:Uh, who says, James, you really good at kind of saying, sticking to your same
Speaker:core message over and over and over and finding brand new ways to say it.
Speaker:And I, I, I initially I said, Oh gosh, he thinks I'm boring.
Speaker:But then I realized, no, no, that was a real strong compliment
Speaker:to say, how many different ways can you make that idea sing?
Speaker:And just in the last couple of weeks, I've had whiteboard posts from
Speaker:literally writing on the whiteboard.
Speaker:I have Jeopardy.
Speaker:Quote, I just had a wild crazy.
Speaker:Hey, let's just do a answer from Jeffrey.
Speaker:And the question is, what is employer brand?
Speaker:Like there's so many different ways to extract an idea because that's
Speaker:what you're trying to do in LinkedIn.
Speaker:You're not trying to push a message.
Speaker:You're trying to spark interest, enthusiasm, excitement,
Speaker:inspiration in somebody else.
Speaker:And you can't do that using the same.
Speaker:Tired Canva post over and over again.
Speaker:You can't do it using the same tired press release format over and over again.
Speaker:Um, saying video is important is great, but that doesn't mean take a text post,
Speaker:go into Canva and write happy holidays.
Speaker:As it appears, if I click the.
Speaker:Video, which that makes me crazy.
Speaker:Like you've wasted five seconds of my life to show me that, which you should
Speaker:have just put in the text, whatever.
Speaker:There's so many different ways to do this.
Speaker:I feel like we have not even come close.
Speaker:Like 99 percent of companies have not come close to pushing a boundary
Speaker:on what this platform can do.
Speaker:Push back if you think I'm wrong.
Speaker:No, I, I think it's such a good point.
Speaker:Uh, however, I was slightly distracted by the fact that, um, all I can
Speaker:think of is James's weird horn.
Speaker:And that's why this post is not for kids.
Speaker:That's why I have to check that box every time I post it.
Speaker:It's like, this is not for children.
Speaker:No, dear.
Speaker:Did I just lower the tone of the.
Speaker:Uh, something happened, something, but you know, um, it's, it's such a good point.
Speaker:If we could just move on rapidly and pretend that didn't
Speaker:happen, I don't remember at all.
Speaker:It's creativity and, um, using the raw ingredients and the content
Speaker:and the stories that you've got, there is a million different ways
Speaker:to sort of, to, to present that.
Speaker:And, um, you know, a lot of content gets produced.
Speaker:It's fantastic.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:You know, let's talk about the recycling of the same content as well.
Speaker:You know, a lot of the time it can be used if you can produce one great
Speaker:bit of video content, you could get several individual posts out of that.
Speaker:You could get a podcast out of it.
Speaker:You can get a newsletter.
Speaker:Um, the LinkedIn newsletter feature is phenomenal for creating a long tail of
Speaker:evergreen content of your posts that have.
Speaker:You know, half life of what, like, uh, four or five days, sometimes,
Speaker:you know, so, um, the creativity and.
Speaker:And coming up with the content and leveraging it.
Speaker:It's there.
Speaker:It's there to be had a lot of a lot of organizations aren't doing that.
Speaker:And when it comes to the partnership between marketing and recruitment, Oh,
Speaker:my God, there is so much opportunity.
Speaker:It's absolutely there's so much opportunity.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, and then it's just kind of on a base level when we say creativity.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It means maybe using AI to generate an interesting image out that makes
Speaker:it look like it was made out of felt.
Speaker:Brian Fink did a whole series, uh, where it looked all, I think there were all his
Speaker:images look like they were stitched yarn.
Speaker:Hey, Brian, how you doing?
Speaker:Um, like there's so many different ways to just say, how do we stand out?
Speaker:How do we say something different?
Speaker:There's such a, yeah.
Speaker:Kind of corporate comms mentality that says, if I have to use the tagline, I have
Speaker:to use it in such and such a visual space.
Speaker:And that's not necessarily true.
Speaker:I love companies who figured out how to put their tagline
Speaker:in meme posts and make it work.
Speaker:I love companies who figured out how to take their tagline and.
Speaker:Put it backwards to make me kind of go.
Speaker:What is that?
Speaker:And I have to read it backwards in a force.
Speaker:It puts its inception, man.
Speaker:It's putting stuff in my head, which is really what we're trying to do.
Speaker:There's so many different ways.
Speaker:And obviously I don't, I'm not a big proponent of saying the tagline 4, 000
Speaker:times, but if there's something you have to put out there, that doesn't mean you
Speaker:can't experiment with ways to put it out there and marketing may be a little.
Speaker:Persnickety about how you do it, but this is the place where you can experiment.
Speaker:In fact, in a lot of ways, if you do it right, T. A. Is the place where
Speaker:marketing can help experiment in places that normally in their home space, they
Speaker:can't write if they mess up a tagline.
Speaker:They're not selling products.
Speaker:Someone's getting fired.
Speaker:But if they mess up the tagline on an employer brand post.
Speaker:Not so much problematic, but it's a chance to experiment.
Speaker:It's a good, it's a, it's a sandbox if you will.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I love the sentiment of that.
Speaker:I personally think you need to hold yourself to the same standards as
Speaker:marketing, if you know, if you're really going to, you know, but you are right.
Speaker:You can tend to get away with, with more, um, you know,
Speaker:being creative with something.
Speaker:I would also caveat with this.
Speaker:Something that you're being creative with needs to be of substance, and it
Speaker:needs to be strategically aligned, and it needs to be caught to the to the message.
Speaker:You need an element of cohesion, continuity and consistency, but then
Speaker:there's a 1, 000, 001 different ways to slice and dice or use a different
Speaker:format to put it forward or, you know, find examples of that from
Speaker:different employees, divisions, teams, geographies, you name it, um, you know,
Speaker:so, um, It comes with a health warning that you've got to do your homework,
Speaker:but then absolutely get creative.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So let's just, let's get a little deeper into the marketing conversation.
Speaker:We've, we've, we've forged those waters a bit.
Speaker:Most paint with a broad brush your kids.
Speaker:I know, I know, I know what I'm doing here.
Speaker:Most companies give the LinkedIn keys to marketing.
Speaker:Whether that's right or wrong.
Speaker:I have lots of thoughts.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:When companies who sell biotech don't even sell biotech, they
Speaker:don't sell anything there.
Speaker:You know, they're funded.
Speaker:They're inventing things.
Speaker:They're hoping to expand things.
Speaker:And they say, no, no, that's our consumer corporate channel.
Speaker:Like, well, are you selling anything?
Speaker:Do people who buy RVs go to LinkedIn to check out which RVs to buy?
Speaker:Of course not.
Speaker:So why does marketing own that stuff?
Speaker:But classically they do.
Speaker:Our audience.
Speaker:Hi, how you doing?
Speaker:Should want access to it.
Speaker:And they might find that there are many, many obstacles to getting access, let
Speaker:alone the keys to do what they want.
Speaker:So let's dive in a little deeper on how do you have that conversation?
Speaker:How do you start that conversation?
Speaker:What are some steps in those conversations?
Speaker:What should you be asking for?
Speaker:What should you be looking for?
Speaker:You know, is it Trying to grab all the keys and all the power all at once.
Speaker:Is it a slow build?
Speaker:What are you doing?
Speaker:Let's let's start there.
Speaker:All right So before we jump into the tactics of sort of what to say and how
Speaker:to navigate You know from a political internal perspective I think there's
Speaker:a sort of really important sort of premise to put out there first Okay
Speaker:I think you know have you ever been in a meeting where there is the head
Speaker:of a team and Somebody asks a really important question And nobody knows
Speaker:the answer, everyone leans in, but they don't look at the head of the team.
Speaker:They look at somebody else, right?
Speaker:The people they, the person you look at in that room, that's the leader.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's not the guy who's called the boss.
Speaker:Yeah, you know, I think this is a similar situation with with linked in that if
Speaker:you stop fighting for ownership and instead you lead by showcasing undeniable
Speaker:value with employee driven content that supports both recruitment and brand
Speaker:building from a marketing point of view.
Speaker:When there is a linked in question, when it comes to strategy, when it
Speaker:comes to the next round of investment, all the rest of it, that room of
Speaker:people lean in and they look at you.
Speaker:They don't look at the head of marketing.
Speaker:They certainly should.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So, um, I think don't enter the fight is the first thing.
Speaker:Stop fighting for people.
Speaker:Ownership.
Speaker:Now, of course, it's different if you're outside so much that
Speaker:you're not, you're even precluded to put any content on LinkedIn.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Now that's a different scenario.
Speaker:It's, it's ridiculous.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:But, but of course it does, it does happen.
Speaker:So, um, so question to you then, James, assuming you can get access
Speaker:to book content on LinkedIn, do you need to fight for the keys to the
Speaker:car to be in the driving seat or not?
Speaker:It's right.
Speaker:I take a very guerrilla marketing approach to this stuff because I've always been
Speaker:kind of in a position where I haven't had a lot of influence in the space.
Speaker:I've either been new or I've kind of just been tucked away.
Speaker:The one person army of employer brand, you know, we all know the
Speaker:stories, um, I focus on two tracks.
Speaker:One, if I can get just a little toehold in the LinkedIn channel, I want even if it's
Speaker:just one post a week, like the bare, bare, bare minimum, if I get one post a week,
Speaker:I'm going to make damn sure that one post.
Speaker:Kills like it just destroys and that means human faces in the photos videos
Speaker:that matter interesting stories.
Speaker:No BS kind of text that says nothing except please click the link.
Speaker:I'm going to look at the LinkedIn algorithm as much as I can
Speaker:to kind of game the system.
Speaker:I'm going to post it and then ping everybody on slack or teams and say.
Speaker:Like and share and comment this post.
Speaker:I want to blow marketing out of the water in the nicest possible way so that I
Speaker:can then be seen as the LinkedIn expert.
Speaker:And that's when I start to kind of build expertise and kind of
Speaker:generate that seat at the table.
Speaker:Alternatively, if I'm completely shut out altogether.
Speaker:I know everybody is always super attracted to that big old follower
Speaker:number on the corporate account.
Speaker:Ooh, it's a hundred thousand followers.
Speaker:Ooh, it's 2.
Speaker:3 million followers.
Speaker:Guess what?
Speaker:You can't reach them all and you never will because it costs a
Speaker:shit ton of cash to reach them.
Speaker:That's how LinkedIn makes money.
Speaker:But if every recruiter, if every hiring manager, if every.
Speaker:Advocate every ally, every friend I have in the business posts
Speaker:and we share, we post around.
Speaker:We can generate way more interest and way more attention to what we have to
Speaker:say than the typical stuff pushed on the corporate channel, which I, you know,
Speaker:you know, is you thinking about the ones that are liked by three people, right?
Speaker:You know, the ones that are very, very kind of like, okay, the
Speaker:boss said I had to post this.
Speaker:So I did.
Speaker:That's how I think you start to get invited to say, look, treat
Speaker:LinkedIn like it's special.
Speaker:Not like Facebook's dumb or boring cousin.
Speaker:It has its own kind of weirdness.
Speaker:It's got its own sense of algorithm.
Speaker:It's got its own rules.
Speaker:And if you know them, you can maximize them and you can say
Speaker:things like, look, my post got four times as much engagement as yours.
Speaker:Imagine if we took my thinking and apply them to your posts.
Speaker:How everybody wins.
Speaker:And that to me is how I approach.
Speaker:But like I said, I'm a gorilla marketer more than anything else.
Speaker:And I bet you have a different answer.
Speaker:So I don't disagree with what you just said.
Speaker:I think there's a halfway house, you know, the, the interesting paradox
Speaker:in a lot of organizations I've been on the inside of is, um, marketing.
Speaker:I've told you that they own it, but HR pay for it.
Speaker:So fine.
Speaker:Now let's just have a moment.
Speaker:I want like, if we could put some special effects on this
Speaker:moment, Brian, say it again.
Speaker:We'll slow it down.
Speaker:We'll give it some, we'll give it some love, get some reverb.
Speaker:Like you're in a big open room.
Speaker:Like you're at, you know, live at Red Rocks.
Speaker:Say that again.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Marketing will tell you they own it, but a lot of the time HR pay for it.
Speaker:And it's a multimillion dollar budget line item.
Speaker:A lot of the time for, for global brands as well, it's,
Speaker:it's not an insignificant amount.
Speaker:So, um, usually somebody not too far away from you, maybe one
Speaker:or two rooms up the ladder can.
Speaker:Can pull some moves and demand some attention and get you a semi
Speaker:seat at the table for five minutes.
Speaker:Like, you know, get your foot in the door usually.
Speaker:So from a political perspective, it's usually explore with exploring that.
Speaker:However, however, I would advise don't do that until.
Speaker:To your point, James, you already know a little bit about how LinkedIn
Speaker:works, you know, the stats of your own channels, you've got some engagement
Speaker:data to go in there with, you've got some comparable data for other
Speaker:brands that use employer brand posting versus corporates in your space.
Speaker:And be ready to be able to answer some questions.
Speaker:I would even go as far as saying, develop your content strategy for 6,
Speaker:9, 12 months and present a robust plan of what you intend to do, achieve and
Speaker:deliver for the organization, not just on your side of the fence, but also on
Speaker:the other side of the fence as well.
Speaker:So now not only are you the technical expert, the domain expert.
Speaker:You have a strategy and a plan that's going to benefit both sides and
Speaker:have a small ask, have a small ask.
Speaker:Don't ask for the whole nine yards right now.
Speaker:Ask for the first few inches and then you can dive into the world
Speaker:that you're talking about, James, a guerrilla approach to demonstrate.
Speaker:Look, if we just create a little bit of content.
Speaker:My way, look at what happens, you know, and a brilliant way to start that off is
Speaker:to turn the gratitude and appreciation of your employees into the currency
Speaker:you need, you know, in the absence of dollars, you know, let's go for the
Speaker:currency of gratitude, pride and passion and togetherness and all of that good
Speaker:stuff, you know, create content that employees are going to want to share
Speaker:because they're the hero in the story.
Speaker:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Um, create content that has opportunity to be a content series.
Speaker:So it's undeniable that that series needs to continue.
Speaker:Um, you know, align it with the themes of your EVP, align it with your values.
Speaker:You know, if you're smart, you might even sneak in a CEO interview or two, or, you
Speaker:know, and then ripple out from there and other people to let them tell their story.
Speaker:So now you get in buy in left, right, and center and build,
Speaker:because before you know it.
Speaker:Before you know it, marketing will see you as a very, very powerful and valuable
Speaker:ally that can make them look good.
Speaker:When you achieve that, then you swim in the same direction, you
Speaker:know, things get a lot easier.
Speaker:And you never know, the budget might get bigger, etc.
Speaker:But it's great content with the right sentiment that's on brand.
Speaker:It doesn't have to be BBC production value quality day one, and it might
Speaker:never have to be either, you know.
Speaker:So, um, I think, I think we, I think we do agree there, James.
Speaker:Um, you know, but I think the world is different in very
Speaker:large corporate global brands.
Speaker:You've gotta play the game a little bit fast.
Speaker:And if you've gotta play a game in a corporate world, you know, the,
Speaker:the rule is you've gotta be the most prepared, the most organized,
Speaker:and be the most generous with.
Speaker:Your domain expertise, you take a plan, a robust plan and put it on the
Speaker:table and say, okay, what have you got?
Speaker:You know, we're paying for this channel.
Speaker:You're running it.
Speaker:Um, you know, but at the end of the day, if marketing want to have the keys
Speaker:and drive the car, be the navigator.
Speaker:That's okay.
Speaker:It's a great place to sit.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I, you know, when we say we, you know, we want to post on LinkedIn, we always assume
Speaker:that we want to post recruiting content.
Speaker:And I don't know that that's necessarily useful.
Speaker:I think if you post content that has a clear consumer corporate connection, you
Speaker:can make a claim that you're helping them.
Speaker:I mean, that, that claim is so obvious.
Speaker:It doesn't feel like those are yours.
Speaker:These are mine.
Speaker:And like we said early on, these posts have content that can.
Speaker:Push lots of different buttons at the same time.
Speaker:If you look, this is a really interesting kind of linkedin, uh, fact.
Speaker:If you look at the number of followers you have, it doesn't
Speaker:delineate candidates and customers.
Speaker:It just says followers.
Speaker:So anything you do to help that number goes up makes them look just
Speaker:as good as it makes you look good.
Speaker:So don't play the zero sum game of these are mine.
Speaker:These are yours.
Speaker:And let's But show how you can be incredibly helpful because
Speaker:you can that expertise around the platform is, it's hard to come by.
Speaker:I mean, yes, you should be on LinkedIn or YouTube.
Speaker:You should be looking at videos and there's plenty of smart
Speaker:people to be reading and say, okay, what can I be using?
Speaker:And there's, you know, the, the rules shift on a regular basis.
Speaker:So keep up to date with them.
Speaker:But that expertise is how you get to be seen as the expert.
Speaker:And that's how you get called into those meetings where you want to be.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:You know, and if there is, if there is a strategic marketing plan, Then you
Speaker:need to know that inside out as well.
Speaker:And if you take the objectives of that marketing plan and make them
Speaker:yours primarily to begin with now, here's the difference, your tactical
Speaker:approach to hitting those strategic objectives is slightly different.
Speaker:You're going to do it by telling employees stories by telling stories
Speaker:of teamwork, collaboration, innovation.
Speaker:And overcoming adversity together, because that's the magic that lives
Speaker:inside your organization and you know, all of those things, move the needle,
Speaker:hit the objectives from a marketing point of view, they're not daft.
Speaker:As soon as they see the needle moving, you know, they can see them getting
Speaker:ever closer to their own bonus, you know, then, you know, you just need to
Speaker:make sure that there's a good, healthy crossover there and, you know, make,
Speaker:make friends and influence people.
Speaker:I, I, my favorite content is.
Speaker:Company X releases product Y much fanfare, much press release commercial
Speaker:on super bowl, yada, yada, yada.
Speaker:You go interview.
Speaker:One of the people who invented the feature did a thing and say, Oh, can
Speaker:we just have a 10 minute conversation?
Speaker:I want you to tell him, tell me about an obstacle you hit.
Speaker:A problem you hit something surprising you didn't anticipate and how you resolve
Speaker:that and just interview them, pick up your phone, you know, do a little
Speaker:camera, just do a little vlog situation.
Speaker:If that's still a word, I don't know what the kids say these days, but talk
Speaker:to them and they're going to talk about.
Speaker:So let me show you.
Speaker:So it turns out that when you put electricity through this thing, okay,
Speaker:this happens, but this also happens and suddenly you can get that kind of
Speaker:the nerdery kind of comes out, which is super passionate, super interesting.
Speaker:And you put that on LinkedIn.
Speaker:Are you making a commercial for the product, or are you making a commercial
Speaker:for the person who made the product?
Speaker:And the answer is, yes.
Speaker:So, you know, that's the trick.
Speaker:You don't have to see the zero sum games.
Speaker:You listed all these different content types.
Speaker:I think it's very easy.
Speaker:I think for people who have been trained from For years that recruiting content and
Speaker:employer brand content looks like this to break that frame and say, wait, I can tell
Speaker:a consumer marketing message that serves me like it takes a minute to digest, but
Speaker:that is really where your head should be.
Speaker:And it doesn't require radical shifts.
Speaker:It doesn't require complete reinvention.
Speaker:It simply means, look, if you're going to talk to that person
Speaker:about their job, tell a specific story about the job they just did.
Speaker:Why not?
Speaker:You know, so long as it's not violating, you know, your corporate
Speaker:legal, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker:Yeah, do that because that's the interesting stuff to people who are,
Speaker:if you're doing press about this product, this piece of content will
Speaker:get folded into that press cycle.
Speaker:There's plenty, if you go, if you're thinking about like software or hardware
Speaker:top products, places like Wired and the verge and all these places, they love
Speaker:to show what the employees say about the product they're just releasing.
Speaker:They show this stuff off, which means your post will skyrocket in views, which
Speaker:means you can start to show off how incredibly smart you are about this stuff.
Speaker:At no point, if you're paying attention, did either of us say
Speaker:anything about spending money.
Speaker:You're already spending money on the channel.
Speaker:The question is, how do you do it?
Speaker:How do you do it more smartly?
Speaker:How do you work better with us?
Speaker:Brian, as we start to kind of wrap this up, let's just kind of put a
Speaker:bow on the marketing conversation.
Speaker:Is there anything else you would say or talk about to say, look, you're
Speaker:having that conversation with marketing.
Speaker:You want to be better partners.
Speaker:You want to be better friends, you know, hopefully, um, where
Speaker:does that conversation start?
Speaker:Where would you, is there anything we're missing in that conversation so far?
Speaker:So I think you touched on it actually, when you talked about
Speaker:the, um, the follow account.
Speaker:And, you know, you don't know whether that is, um, prospects or candidates,
Speaker:you know, you don't know, you don't know whether it's just external
Speaker:community and, you know, a good chunk of that is also existing employees.
Speaker:Now, if you can build over time, more engagement and a community
Speaker:of your existing employees, just think how powerful that is.
Speaker:When you need an army of people to say great things or support you or overcome
Speaker:risk of reputation when the chips are down and all the rest, just just think for a
Speaker:second how powerful it is at the stroke of a key to be able to put something up
Speaker:and rally the troops to get favorable engagement, encouragement and support.
Speaker:It's phenomenally valuable.
Speaker:So you can be.
Speaker:Really creative with ways of demonstrating the power of having an engaged employee
Speaker:base, you know, and if you look at what turns the CEO and the C suite
Speaker:on, you look at what marketing are trying to achieve and think about
Speaker:what's the angle of credibility.
Speaker:Um, being more genuine as a brand, authenticity, transparency,
Speaker:being protected when you're attacked in the media, etc.
Speaker:How can we use this army to our best advantage?
Speaker:Now, those are the stats and the case study data points that
Speaker:you want to present, as well as everything else we've talked about.
Speaker:So, in the download, there's Real world actionable strategies that turn LinkedIn
Speaker:from just another recruitment channel into a business critical growth engine
Speaker:and how to build an army of advocates and brand ambassadors, which, you know,
Speaker:is a potent force to be reckoned with in any, any organization, you know, we've
Speaker:got tangible, um, ideas and strategy on how to stop fighting marketing and make
Speaker:them your best friend, which, you know, is a huge winning in any organization that
Speaker:I've worked alongside the last 20 years.
Speaker:Um, not to say obviously, at least, you know, getting more out of it is
Speaker:going to help you boost candidate quality, reduce, reduce hiring.
Speaker:Um, you know, we, we went a little bit in depth with the, um, mastering
Speaker:the LinkedIn analytics as well.
Speaker:You don't have to become an absolute expert at this, but you need to know
Speaker:what you're talking about and you need to be the most credible in the room.
Speaker:In my experience.
Speaker:That's not too difficult.
Speaker:So learn the basics.
Speaker:Um, you know, and apart from, apart from anything else, this argument and
Speaker:this element of your strategy as a TA leader, I think this, I would argue
Speaker:it's a cornerstone essential for you to elevate your own credibility and your
Speaker:own career inside any organization.
Speaker:Um, this is the one thing that you have to have real good mastery of.
Speaker:Yeah, I want to, I want to underline something you said, because, because
Speaker:I think it's kind of like the thesis that this whole project you and I
Speaker:do, and this is all about, and it's not about fighting with marketing.
Speaker:It's about you show your value, you show your worth by showing how
Speaker:you're not doing this to hire better.
Speaker:You're doing this to grow a company that what your objectives are, our company
Speaker:objectives, not recruiting objectives.
Speaker:The more you lean on that, the more these conversations are quibbling over
Speaker:the best way to do something rather than quibbling over if you should do
Speaker:something, if you should be allowed in, if you have expertise, and that is
Speaker:a far, far more effective place to be.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:I've got to give you some credit for something here, James.
Speaker:So, so, you know, we've, I put a lot of this download together.
Speaker:However, however, you named it.
Speaker:Um, so good.
Speaker:They can't ignore you, which I think says it all.
Speaker:It sums up like the last sort of five minutes of the conversation.
Speaker:This is about being so good.
Speaker:You can't be ignored.
Speaker:It's always the best strategy inside a corporate organization, and I think it
Speaker:will fare you well, especially if you're Especially when it comes to LinkedIn
Speaker:mastery and getting the most out of it, making friends with marketing and
Speaker:driving the organization forward together.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I totally stole that from Steve Martin.
Speaker:But if you're going to steal, steal good.
Speaker:That's, that's, there you go.
Speaker:Good old Steve.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:A classic.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Well, Brian, thanks so much.
Speaker:This has been another great conversation.
Speaker:Remember that download is at people.
Speaker:MBA.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:It is free for subscribers.
Speaker:Subscribe.
Speaker:Be to get access to all the free stuff.
Speaker:It's all free, free, free, free, free.
Speaker:I said it so many times.
Speaker:You can't believe it again.
Speaker:Thanks so much for happy dance and employer brand labs for sponsoring
Speaker:this episode, as always check out the happy dance for career sites, check an
Speaker:employer brand for employer, employer brand labs for employer brand stuff.
Speaker:Uh, otherwise.
Speaker:Tell your friends, leave us a voicemail, share this stuff out.
Speaker:We are growing.
Speaker:It's been a weird kind of bumpy ride, but we're starting to see the traction start
Speaker:to happen and people are talking about it.
Speaker:So let people know you have TA leader friends who need this information.
Speaker:So make sure that they know it's there.
Speaker:So with that, Brian, I think we talk about candidate experience next week
Speaker:and I can't wait to dive into that.
Speaker:And I know you can't either.
Speaker:See you next week, team.
Speaker:I see everybody.
Speaker:37 minutes of your life gone just like that.
Speaker:I guess that's slightly better than wasting it on LinkedIn.
Speaker:Anyway, if this has inspired you or helped you see new ways of getting
Speaker:things done, tell a friend about the podcast or point them to peoplemba.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:Later tater.
