Get CX-y: Candidate Experience Still Matters
Are You Experienced? The Candidate Experience Episode You Can't Miss
In this eye-opening episode of People MBA, Brian and James dive deep into the often misunderstood world of candidate experience. They challenge conventional wisdom by exposing that what recruiters call "candidate experience," candidates simply see as "brand experience" - and the stakes couldn't be higher.
With companies receiving over a million applications annually and ghosting becoming the norm (despite what recruiters claim!), this episode reveals why your candidate touchpoints can make or break your business reputation. Through real-world examples and practical frameworks, you'll discover why even your employee referrals might be suffering because of poor candidate experiences.
The hosts introduce their innovative "Feel, Think, Ease, Memory" model for mapping the candidate journey and share specific moments of magic that transform ordinary recruiting into unforgettable brand experiences. From Virgin's use of Usain Bolt to prepare candidates for interviews to simple changes that can boost application conversion by 40%, this episode delivers actionable insights for companies of any size.
Whether you're reimagining your entire recruitment process or just looking to make small but significant improvements, this episode provides the roadmap to create intentional, on-brand experiences that turn candidates into brand ambassadors - even when you don't hire them.
Download the accompanying guide at http://PeopleMBA.com and elevate your candidate experience from ordinary to extraordinary.
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From first impressions to final offers, the candidate experience shapes how top talent perceives your company. Plum's latest eBook, "From Hi to Hired: Elevating the Candidate Experience," has practical insights to help you perfect this crucial process. Discover strategies that make each step seamless and engaging, ensuring your candidates feel valued every step of the way. Download your copy today and transform your recruitment approach to engage your candidates effortlessly. Download your copy here: https://www.plum.io/candidate-experience-ebook
Transcript
So look, if we had the money right now, we'd be playing Jimi
Speaker:Hendrix experience the song.
Speaker:Are you experience to really kind of reinforce the idea
Speaker:that we were talking about?
Speaker:Candid experience.
Speaker:We don't have that kind of money.
Speaker:So in your own head, mentally play that Wawa pedal buddy.
Speaker:Just go nuts on that thing.
Speaker:Just you're, you're at the electric ladyland rocking out.
Speaker:With the boys and, uh, you play that solo.
Speaker:So that's really how we're gonna start this off, if you can believe it.
Speaker:Yes, it's true.
Speaker:Uh, air guitar, mental air guitar, mental air guitar.
Speaker:Who would ever thought today we're talking about candidate experience,
Speaker:the thing you think you care about, but you don't always know you're if you're
Speaker:doing it right, because it's such a weird, vague, open kind of concept.
Speaker:Uh, and much like employer branding, it's the sort of thing we've been
Speaker:sold in a very particular way that may not be the right way.
Speaker:So today we're gonna get.
Speaker:Into candidate experience
Speaker:at a time when candidates can apply to every job under the sun with just a click.
Speaker:We need to work extra hard to be remembered.
Speaker:So in this episode, the boys put on their white gloves, get out their
Speaker:silver platters, and talk about getting more out of your candidate experience.
Speaker:It's the people MBA brought to you by plum.
Speaker:Let's see who called in.
Speaker:You've reached the people MBA.
Speaker:We're out shopping for our new global headquarters, so go
Speaker:ahead and talk after the beep.
Speaker:Hey, Brian and James.
Speaker:It feels like everyone was talking about candidate experience a
Speaker:few years ago, and no one is.
Speaker:CX, Deb.
Speaker:Alright, Brian, today we're gonna get into candid experience.
Speaker:This whole episode is brought to you by Plum plumb.io.
Speaker:Check them out.
Speaker:Uh, we thank them for, for their sponsorship.
Speaker:This is their second, so we're really thrilled that they could be a part
Speaker:of our launch process here at People.
Speaker:BA, uh, couple of other things.
Speaker:Make sure to leave a voicemail.
Speaker:Make sure to go check us out on YouTube and.
Speaker:As the kids say, smash that subscribe button, that's what they
Speaker:say, I'm told, uh, I wouldn't know.
Speaker:No one's accused, no one's confused me, as for a kid in a very long time.
Speaker:Uh, but go check that out.
Speaker:That's where the videos are because the downloads of people, NBA, all that good
Speaker:stuff, still available, always available.
Speaker:Go check it out and don't forget.
Speaker:All the other downloads we've created over these last couple of months are
Speaker:there everything from personal brand to better emails, to, uh, how to sell
Speaker:your leadership on employer brand.
Speaker:It's all there helping you turn good thinking into action.
Speaker:So today, Brian, um, I I'm gonna call you out for just a second.
Speaker:Um, first off, uh, oh, as the owner and CEOI don't know what the heck it is you
Speaker:do over there, but o as the as owner of Cap Dance for a while, your companies.
Speaker:Tagline was The Sea Sexiest Career Sites.
Speaker:And I just wanna let you, I know it's not the, the case anymore, it's not the
Speaker:tagline anymore, but just Chef's Kiss.
Speaker:That's a gorgeous tag.
Speaker:I have always loved that stupid tag.
Speaker:Um, thanks me.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, here we're, we're here to, to, to, to praise that, which deserves praise.
Speaker:Um, so I respect the thinking you've done about candid experience, and I'm thrilled
Speaker:that we get to talk about it today.
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Looking forward to jumping in.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So as I said, the download is over people BA sponsored by Plum plumb.io.
Speaker:Thanks so much.
Speaker:Let's start with the basics, because much like as I said, much like an
Speaker:employer brand, candid experience is something that everybody thinks
Speaker:they know, but they may not know.
Speaker:So let's start with some myths about what candid experience
Speaker:is, what it's for, how it works.
Speaker:Um, things we're all kind of doing wrong.
Speaker:I.
Speaker:So, I mean, it's such a big topic, James, you know, you know this yourself.
Speaker:But, um, I think the first thing that I'd start any conversation around candidate
Speaker:experience, you know, if we're starting from the, the ground up, is the candidate
Speaker:doesn't see it as candidate experience.
Speaker:They see it as brand experience.
Speaker:And a lot of the time, and we've proven this, oh, I remember working with
Speaker:Virgin more than a decade ago, we've.
Speaker:Approved the, um, the economics of this a poor candidate experience
Speaker:can, can cost you dearly, not just in the world of talent, but you know,
Speaker:reputation, um, as a, as a whole.
Speaker:And, you know, we've seen cases where poor candidate experience leads to canceling
Speaker:tangible consumer contracts and loss in sales revenue and all of those things.
Speaker:So it's not to be, um, it's not to be taken for granted
Speaker:or dismissed or overlooked.
Speaker:The flip side of this is think about how many companies interview
Speaker:more than, or sorry, receive applicants of over a million a year.
Speaker:Like there is so many companies and not all global brands, you know, a lot of
Speaker:small companies growing, you know, taking on a lot of roles, all the rest of it,
Speaker:and the number's always increasing 'cause it's just so easy to apply
Speaker:now with all the tools out there, I think that's gonna be a surprisingly
Speaker:terrifyingly common occurrence.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, and I'm sure we're getting into this as well, but, um, making a
Speaker:candidate experience easier isn't always equating to pos to positivity and better
Speaker:and more efficient and more effective.
Speaker:So, um.
Speaker:So, yeah, it taking this seriously and also looking at the opportunity
Speaker:of when you get this right, you have a brand ambassador.
Speaker:You know, they, they might have come through the recruitment door, but actually
Speaker:they leave saying good things about you.
Speaker:And, and that equates to potentially more customers, a better reputation,
Speaker:more sentiment, market share, and all of those wonderful things, you know, so the
Speaker:opportunities are, are boundless Now, as long as you're getting the basics right.
Speaker:You know, you start with do no harm.
Speaker:Um, you know, and, and you are, you're saving the candidate in a way that leaves
Speaker:them feeling good about the experience and doesn't, uh, damage your reputation.
Speaker:I mean, I think if you just look at back of the napkin math here, for
Speaker:every candidate you hire, let's just pretend you have a hundred applicants,
Speaker:and let's be fair, these days, that's a, that's a fairly low number.
Speaker:If you screen 20 of them and talk to and bring in five to 10 of them, that means
Speaker:there is a 10 x number of people who are having deep involved interactions
Speaker:with your brand who you never hire.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You think about, oh, I'm gonna make advocates.
Speaker:You always look internally, but there's literally 10 times plus more people
Speaker:who have had deep experiences with your brand, who you could be leveraging.
Speaker:And if you don't get your candid experience, your brand experience, right?
Speaker:They're just gonna talk smack about you and.
Speaker:And in a lot of ways, kind of undercut any of the good work you're doing internally.
Speaker:I think we just, we're so hyper-focused on the, on the higher that we forget about
Speaker:all the other stuff we're leaving behind.
Speaker:And it, it, it's, it's, it's just the numbers alone.
Speaker:And like I said, the more people who apply, the more this just gets worse.
Speaker:So over the years as well, working with lots of organizations who see
Speaker:the value in employee referrals.
Speaker:When we've done our research to discover why aren't referrals, um, why are they
Speaker:going down or why, why are the number of referrals not where we want it to be?
Speaker:One of the top three reasons was employees were a little bit ashamed of
Speaker:their own candidate experience and don't wanna put their friends through it.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah, they're, they're using their own political cap, their own personal
Speaker:capital to say, I'm referring this person and it's a two-way street.
Speaker:They're referring the, the person, but they're also also referring
Speaker:the person to the company.
Speaker:And so if the person sucks, that looks bad on them, and if the company
Speaker:sucks, that looks bad on them.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:It's a no win situation very often.
Speaker:So when you have that kind of situation, any tiny little kind of
Speaker:like kink in the gears shuts the whole machinery down and that, yeah, I think
Speaker:referrals is a great kind of litmus test as to do you have a problem here?
Speaker:Because nobody knows your company and your canned experience like a employee
Speaker:because they've been through both.
Speaker:They know what's really like.
Speaker:And we're, you know, in a lot of ways we're talking about the basics.
Speaker:We're talking about don't ghost.
Speaker:And I know everybody in the sound of my voice saying we don't ghost.
Speaker:Yes, you do.
Speaker:You do.
Speaker:And do not rely on your a TS to do all the heavy lifting of
Speaker:communicating to people for you.
Speaker:Because if I poll companies, 99% of them will say, we absolutely do not ghost.
Speaker:And if I talk to candidates, 99% of 'em will say they absolutely do.
Speaker:So you tell me what ghosting is.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:And that's just kind of a, a kind of a single idea, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:There's so many different ways you can screw this up.
Speaker:I've been through experiences where a friend has recommended me.
Speaker:I started to go through the process and they just forgot about me, and I had
Speaker:to ping my friend and say what was up?
Speaker:And it irreparably damaged the relationship with that
Speaker:person and that company.
Speaker:So it, it, it's, it's real.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Which is why people are hesitant to refer their friends and their community
Speaker:if they don't have faith in the, the candidate experience, which, you know,
Speaker:goes to show just getting the basics.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Uh, is, you know, obviously the best place to start, but, you know, um.
Speaker:You know that, that means you need to understand, okay,
Speaker:what does success look like?
Speaker:What is an acceptable level of experience that we're going
Speaker:for here across the board?
Speaker:You know, what are the service level agreements, the basic agreements we
Speaker:need to put in place with each button holder along, along the way, because, um.
Speaker:The truth is now, James, I mean, you alluded to it earlier,
Speaker:there are so many tools.
Speaker:The problem, the problem isn't technology and tools and the,
Speaker:you know, there is a litany.
Speaker:There is, you know, literally, and in some cases a race to the bottom where
Speaker:the technology isn't expensive anymore.
Speaker:Um, so there's no excuse whatsoever to not have the, the right
Speaker:tools, but it's never the tools.
Speaker:It's how you use the tools and usually it's human error or a lack
Speaker:of education or a lack of design.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Or things not synchron synchronizing and stitching together and so and so forth.
Speaker:So, you know, the, the first sort of piece of advice that I think we
Speaker:need to put out there is, you know, when's the last time you applied
Speaker:for a job in your own organization?
Speaker:So you felt firsthand what it was like to be a candidate.
Speaker:Um, you know, and you can.
Speaker:I highly recommend getting some alignment internally.
Speaker:Okay, what's acceptable?
Speaker:Where are we now?
Speaker:Measure this sentiment, the NPS, and, and get some idea of,
Speaker:you know, just how bad is it?
Speaker:You know, I'm gonna call it for what it is.
Speaker:Usually it's just how bad is it?
Speaker:There's a lot of organizations doing it well, don't get me wrong, but unless
Speaker:you're measuring it, it's probably not something you're gonna be proud of when
Speaker:you sort of look under all the rocks.
Speaker:So, you know, to find success, what are you willing to accept in terms of
Speaker:minimal viable level of experience?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Um, and then start to map out every branded touchpoint, um, to discover.
Speaker:And, you know, the basic premise when you're doing this, James, and stop
Speaker:me if I'm jumping ahead here, Paul.
Speaker:You know, I get excited about this and jump, dive into the
Speaker:meat, you know, we'll get to.
Speaker:End to end if you just, if you only do this thing, if you only map what
Speaker:people, uh, how people feel, what they are thinking, how easy is it
Speaker:and what's the memorable moment?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Like what's the memory they take away from each touchpoint?
Speaker:If you just map the reality of that.
Speaker:And then overlay what you would like it to be with a simple way of getting there.
Speaker:You've just leveled up beyond most organizations on the planet.
Speaker:Yeah, totally.
Speaker:You know, and I guarantee maybe not at every point, but I, I guarantee
Speaker:there will be points along the way where they are so easy to do.
Speaker:There's, it's littered with quick wins.
Speaker:It's remarkable how easy it is to uplift a candidate experience.
Speaker:If you only do that one exercise
Speaker:I'd add on just because I've seen enough of the sausage being made, so to
Speaker:speak, that next to each touch point, there should be potential failures.
Speaker:I. Oh yeah, let's just use the a TS 'cause it's fun to beat up on an a TS.
Speaker:Everybody loves to do it.
Speaker:Everybody assumes that.
Speaker:Okay, well I've got this a TS and has an automated email, uh,
Speaker:uh, you know, rejection system.
Speaker:What's the, what's I, I'm blanking on, what's the word they use?
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:It doesn't matter.
Speaker:It's such an euphemism for rejecting people.
Speaker:Um, someone's gonna call in and tell me what the answer is, and it's
Speaker:gonna be, of course, it's, um, but they just rely on the ATS to do it.
Speaker:But no one says, what's the message?
Speaker:What's the likelihood that those message gets, goes to spam
Speaker:or just drops off altogether?
Speaker:Is there any way of convert?
Speaker:Making sure that those emails are going to where they need to go.
Speaker:Mm. So looking at each step and saying, where are the potential
Speaker:failure points because we're so.
Speaker:And, and this is, this is a human thing, not a ta HR thing.
Speaker:We are so assuming the right kind of path that we don't look at
Speaker:the opportunities for failure.
Speaker:What happens when we reach out for a scheduling and nothing happens?
Speaker:Does someone know to go back and circle back and say, Hey,
Speaker:we're trying to schedule.
Speaker:Did you not get our email?
Speaker:Are you not getting our emails?
Speaker:There's so many little tiny fail points that if we just say, you're right.
Speaker:If we just say, what do we want people to feel and what's it gonna take to get
Speaker:people to feel at each of these stages?
Speaker:That's a huge step up.
Speaker:But I would also say double check your math in terms of where those failure
Speaker:points are, because it's so easy for good work to go nowhere because it's literally
Speaker:not going to where it needs to go.
Speaker:It's not going to the candidate.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:And you know that that just goes to sort of reinforce the points of,
Speaker:you know, monthly, quarterly, apply for a job, your organization, and
Speaker:just see how it feels, you know?
Speaker:Um, candidate experience isn't just about a positive brand experience
Speaker:for the candidate when the brand is in front of them, because there's
Speaker:moments of contemplation, there's moments of fear, doubt, anxiety, you
Speaker:know, the night before an interview.
Speaker:It's also, oh, absolutely.
Speaker:It's endemic to this process.
Speaker:There's no way to get around it.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, and you can have two great candidate branded touchpoints, but
Speaker:if they are too far apart mm-hmm.
Speaker:The anxiety goes, you know, so it's not just the touchpoint, it's the
Speaker:cadence and how it feels in between.
Speaker:And that can be impacted by.
Speaker:A, shortening the gap.
Speaker:B, setting expectations.
Speaker:If it is gonna be two weeks, tell 'em it's gonna be two weeks and there's
Speaker:nothing you need to do in between.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And then the third thing is maybe, maybe there is a moment of magic in between
Speaker:unexpected value or unexpected time, which creates something that heightens desire.
Speaker:Um, heightens confidence or gets them to lean in and be really compelled
Speaker:and turn up even more prepared or, you know, the, the, the buy-in
Speaker:increases as, as they go through.
Speaker:There's all sorts of, of, um, of ways to add value and change the
Speaker:experience based on, um, what matters most to you as an organization.
Speaker:If.
Speaker:You've got the basics right?
Speaker:There's no point surprising somebody with a moment of magic, but actually
Speaker:they've just been at their wits end because they can't get a
Speaker:simple answer to a simple question.
Speaker:Three star restaurant with bathrooms not clean is no
Speaker:longer a three star restaurant.
Speaker:There, there don't how much.
Speaker:I don't care how good the food is.
Speaker:It's just that simple.
Speaker:We're gonna get into a seven step process.
Speaker:We're gonna skim past it 'cause it's on a downloadable document.
Speaker:Hey, segue Captain, how are you?
Speaker:Welcome to the Toledo Deck.
Speaker:Um, check out the download.
Speaker:Thank you plum for sponsoring.
Speaker:It is over@peoplemba.com.
Speaker:The entire process as well as a lot of kind of like beyond the basics work
Speaker:is there for you to kind of check out.
Speaker:And before we get to that, Brian, I have one question.
Speaker:Where do we stand on the phrase white glove?
Speaker:Is that like five years ago?
Speaker:That was just the term everybody used.
Speaker:Everybody wanted a white glove, canned experience.
Speaker:White glove This white glove, that one.
Speaker:Is everybody still asking for that?
Speaker:Is that still kind of like the assumption of our North Star and two?
Speaker:Is that right?
Speaker:So, I mean, I think it comes down to, uh, how you define white glove.
Speaker:If it's a standard of quality and a minimum bar for how you're making
Speaker:people feel and what their takeaway and perception is of your brand, then maybe.
Speaker:But actually high touch isn't always best for your brand, and
Speaker:it's certainly not always best for.
Speaker:The candidate, I mean, the, the Englishman in me comes to America and walks into
Speaker:a retail store and just hates the fact that I can't move without being
Speaker:asked if somebody can help me find something, and all the rest of it.
Speaker:It's like, oh my God.
Speaker:Like it's just, I just got here.
Speaker:Yeah, it's just an awful experience, especially for an Englishman
Speaker:in, in New York, you know, it's like, it's just doesn't work.
Speaker:Um, whereas we're not gonna play the Sting song.
Speaker:We're not gonna play the Sting song.
Speaker:If we, if we couldn't afford the Jimmy Rights, we're not gonna afford it.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:Mr. Sumner's rights on that one.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I just dropped his real name.
Speaker:Fine.
Speaker:I'm a fan boy.
Speaker:Shush.
Speaker:Moving
Speaker:on.
Speaker:Yes, there you go.
Speaker:However, if I go to a restaurant and it's a special occasion and I've
Speaker:decided to spend a lot of money and I'm trying to impress somebody or
Speaker:create a beautiful, memorable, um.
Speaker:Event, then actually I want that level of service and it, you
Speaker:know, adds to the experience.
Speaker:You know, and again, you know, with, with technology and what's available
Speaker:to us now, uh, it's about understanding with real insight, what's best for the
Speaker:candidates balance with what's best for the business and the stakeholders.
Speaker:Um, you know, and.
Speaker:A lot of people want a human experience, but sometimes they're the human
Speaker:and they don't need another one.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, like if I'm on Amazon and I just want next day delivery and all
Speaker:the rest of it, like a human would just mess things up at that point.
Speaker:I want quick, efficient.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And done.
Speaker:And that's, and that's it.
Speaker:So, you know, I, I go back to.
Speaker:The insight of all of the stakeholders, not just the candidate.
Speaker:You know, and one of the big things that I would implore everybody to really think
Speaker:about is when you're re, re-imagining, redesigning re-engineering, or just
Speaker:refining the candidate experience, I.
Speaker:When's the last time you went to the hiring managers, the ones that let
Speaker:you down and cause you all the pain?
Speaker:And ask them, how can we reimagine the candidate experience to better serve you?
Speaker:Now, regardless of what they say next, you'd be crazy not to listen.
Speaker:And reflect some change that shows empathy and compassion for their busy life.
Speaker:Because now they're gonna be bought in a lot more.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And the, the recruiter at the sharp end, who is gonna get it in the neck
Speaker:if anything goes wrong, you know their life is stressful enough and,
Speaker:you know, so how do we, empathy map.
Speaker:What their world looks like and create a candidate experience that isn't just
Speaker:magical and certainly isn't just white glove, if it creates a ton of extra work
Speaker:or an impossible mountain to climb on a daily basis for the people in your
Speaker:lean team who are trying to, um, weave miracles for, for the organization,
Speaker:which is more or less always the case.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And lean team is being nice.
Speaker:Okay, so that is a perfect segue into the actual seven step process of the how do
Speaker:you elevate your entire candid experience?
Speaker:And you already touched on, you gotta understand your
Speaker:personas, you gotta empathy map.
Speaker:You gotta really kind of understand all the different touch points and
Speaker:say, how do we change people from what they're probably experiencing in
Speaker:each given moment to what we want them to experience in any given moment?
Speaker:And by the way, if you are.
Speaker:Pinterest, you probably want them to feel comforted and supported.
Speaker:And if you're Goldman Sachs, you probably want them to feel a little
Speaker:bit nervous that this is the hardest interview they're about to enter.
Speaker:They don't have to be the same.
Speaker:So just kind of making sure we're crystal clear that your candid experience
Speaker:doesn't have to be anything like the other candid experience because
Speaker:it is in fact a brand experience.
Speaker:Say it with me.
Speaker:Yet again.
Speaker:So step two is mapping the feel, think, ease, memory model,
Speaker:which just flows off the tongue, sir. Just it like, like butter.
Speaker:Like butter.
Speaker:Beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker:So tell me what is this thing?
Speaker:Yeah, so, you know, this is essentially what journey mapping now.
Speaker:Uh, we're walking through every, every step to really interrogate.
Speaker:We talk about how you make people feel.
Speaker:People feel six times faster than they think.
Speaker:You know, often that correlates with what they then take away and remember as well.
Speaker:But you know, you alluded to it.
Speaker:It's a really good example.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:It's not always a positive emotion.
Speaker:That is the, that's gonna serve you the best, actually.
Speaker:Like, let's just take Amazon or an organization with a potentially
Speaker:hostile environment or, you know, it might be highly competitive
Speaker:or, you know, whatever it is.
Speaker:Um, it might be appropriate.
Speaker:Um, during the, the interview phases, whether it's one or, or or more, to
Speaker:put people under pressure to see how they react and to give them a little
Speaker:preview of the reality of how it feels to be asked for something which is
Speaker:high quality in a short space of time.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:So maybe that's appropriate, maybe it isn't, but.
Speaker:The feeling bit isn't just positive, nice, happy, joy.
Speaker:You know, it's what's the most appropriate way we want candidates to feel at this,
Speaker:this moment, and what did they want?
Speaker:What did we want 'em to think about that?
Speaker:You know, it might be we want 'em to feel stress and we want 'em to
Speaker:think this is how it's gonna be.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And there's, and that's how those two things go together, you know?
Speaker:But then, you know, what's the ease level?
Speaker:Are we making it difficult because we want them to demonstrate a capability
Speaker:or to, to show some sort of resilience or insurance or, you know, commitment?
Speaker:Or actually, is it just a pain in the ass where technology, if it was better, would
Speaker:remove a frustration or an irritation?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, so how easy is it?
Speaker:Like, what's the friction?
Speaker:And then if you, if you add all of that up, what do they walk away
Speaker:remembering from that moment in time?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, is it achievement?
Speaker:Because even though they were stressed, they knew it was a test.
Speaker:And we made it easy for them to demonstrate their best ability.
Speaker:Therefore, wow.
Speaker:Yeah, I remember.
Speaker:They are so intentional and they are so switched on about
Speaker:their candidate experience.
Speaker:This is impressive.
Speaker:You know, notice, impressive, not, um, joyous, positive, happy.
Speaker:You know, that's not what we're talking about.
Speaker:To your point, it's gotta be on brand and it should be intentional.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Mapping those aspects along the way and then looking at what's in between, um, is.
Speaker:It's just the, definitely the place to start.
Speaker:And then once you've done that, the next thing is if you're really serious
Speaker:about your candidate experience and you want this to be a standard that
Speaker:everybody who touches it and everybody who is behind the scenes supporting it
Speaker:and everybody who you want to be, uh, an infrequent ambassador or somebody who
Speaker:might have to touch it at some point.
Speaker:Consider bringing it to life with a simple storyboard and a simple service level
Speaker:agreement of this is how we do this now.
Speaker:So you can hold people to standards, but also make it really obvious.
Speaker:This is what we mean.
Speaker:You know, there's nothing worse than going through all of this pain, having really
Speaker:great intentions, but not being clear on how you want all of the different actors
Speaker:to turn up and, and, and make the scene.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, you know, so somebody scheduler
Speaker:shows up and kind of messes the whole thing up because they don't
Speaker:realize what the expectation is and they're, they may be the smallest
Speaker:cog in the machine, but Wow.
Speaker:They can play, play an outsized role in Exactly.
Speaker:Living up to or killing that brand experience.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Airbnb famously brought in Pixar to map their customer journey, and they
Speaker:literally brought it to life with visual representation of every moment, which
Speaker:reflected how they wanted their customer to feel, what the thought was, how easy
Speaker:it is, it, uh, what's, how, like what's it, what's the memorable moment, but
Speaker:also from a stakeholder perspective like.
Speaker:Where's, where's the, the standard?
Speaker:Where's the bar that you must live up to?
Speaker:What's the service level agreement for all the people involved?
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:And that's definitely something that we can, we can learn from.
Speaker:And it, it doesn't have to be.
Speaker:Um, you know, Pixar level, uh, illustration and all the rest of it.
Speaker:But what I've found over the years is if you go to the lengths of
Speaker:visualizing or mapping something out and saying, this is the standard and
Speaker:now it has your logo on it somewhere, and it's like a official document.
Speaker:Wow, you are serious.
Speaker:This is important to the business.
Speaker:You know, now it's part of your onboarding.
Speaker:People joining the organization don't know anything different.
Speaker:Like, this is how we do things now.
Speaker:So, um, going from the journey mapping and bringing it to life with a simple
Speaker:storyboard or written narrative or something that makes it official.
Speaker:I really, really recommend those steps.
Speaker:It's, uh, you know, it's made such a difference in many organizations.
Speaker:Speaking of a smooth experience, this is the spot where I suggest you
Speaker:subscribe to the people NBA, either on YouTube or your podcast player.
Speaker:All downloads are available@peoplenba.com.
Speaker:If you're getting something useful out of it, tell someone
Speaker:they might even Thank you.
Speaker:You, I was a very smooth segue going from two to three.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:Uh, I wanna add.
Speaker:Something we don't talk about much very often, and that is how memories
Speaker:are made, how impressions are made.
Speaker:And there's a lot of really interesting research around it, about its
Speaker:recency bias or the, it's not recent.
Speaker:What's the, the first one, like the first touch and last touch
Speaker:is usually the rule of thumb.
Speaker:That's the part you were, remember if you're going to a nice restaurant,
Speaker:do you remember the third course?
Speaker:Maybe, but do you remember that the mare d or the host knew your name and
Speaker:had a table ready and asked you a funny question and was incredibly personable
Speaker:and that last piece of food and the the bill and the sques, scraping of the crumbs
Speaker:and all that, those two are the things you remember, the first and last thing.
Speaker:So if you're trying to storyboard these processes, you've gotta remember,
Speaker:they won't remember the interview, but they remember walking in the door and
Speaker:they remember the last thing you say.
Speaker:A lot.
Speaker:And in fact, those two things out, outsize influence on how they remember it.
Speaker:So if you nail some of those things, if you think about first touch,
Speaker:last touch, and how each one of them matters, it doesn't take much to
Speaker:intentionally define those changes in, uh, perception and in memory.
Speaker:I.
Speaker:Absolutely, and those things might be tiny little things, but make huge impact and
Speaker:big ripples in terms of, uh, what people take away from from that experience.
Speaker:Those are the things that need to be really clearly articulated and
Speaker:elevated and made super clear.
Speaker:Hey.
Speaker:This is what we're gonna hang our hats on.
Speaker:Everybody needs to rally around.
Speaker:This needs to be done.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:What's beautiful about that straight away is you can start to reward
Speaker:it, recognize it, celebrate it.
Speaker:Um, demonstrate the impact It may like, it can be become part of the culture that
Speaker:people really get behind very quickly.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Alright, moving on to step four, leveraging storytelling
Speaker:to inspire and engage.
Speaker:What's that?
Speaker:So I Do you, do you do, like, do you, is storytelling a thing that
Speaker:you kind of think about a lot?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:Just guessing.
Speaker:Uh,
Speaker:yeah, it's a little sort of geeky passion of mine.
Speaker:I, you know, but, um, saying something, telling somebody
Speaker:the facts, you know, is, um.
Speaker:Useful, but telling a story makes it more human and it
Speaker:creates an emotional connection.
Speaker:It's also a lot easier to convey, maybe a lot of information, but
Speaker:within a story it's much more memorable, relatable, and personable.
Speaker:You know, obviously if you have employees giving advice or painting
Speaker:a picture or being really clear and candid about something.
Speaker:The authenticity, the believability, it seems real and brings the brand
Speaker:to life, um, far more effectively than any manual handbook, playbook,
Speaker:sign, letter, email, you name it.
Speaker:Um, yeah, so investing in the storytelling aspect, um.
Speaker:Can make a phenomenal difference.
Speaker:And, you know, once you've done this, you use it so many times, the
Speaker:return on investment is just so high.
Speaker:I'll give you a really good example of my favorite story structure to use
Speaker:during, um, a candidate experience.
Speaker:And I've many story structures in my head, but the, the one that springs to
Speaker:mind that I've seen used to great effect many, many times is, feel, felt, found.
Speaker:Because if you know that a candidate has some sort of reservation, some sort
Speaker:of hesitancy, something they're having difficulty believing or getting their
Speaker:head round, if they can hear it from an employee who's maybe sat in that seat,
Speaker:I. They are in that team right now.
Speaker:They've been where you are and now they're on the other side of it.
Speaker:It's a phenomenal way to demonstrate social proof with the power of story and
Speaker:feel, felt, found is, I know how you feel.
Speaker:I felt the same way.
Speaker:But what I found on the other side was, and then they give you
Speaker:the reality, and what that does is it takes your current reality,
Speaker:your present time, and it matches.
Speaker:This, matches with their past, and then it magically accelerates them
Speaker:into the future and reassures them that their fear is, is not something
Speaker:they need to be worried about.
Speaker:And it works phenomenally well.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, honestly, that that works so well that that's the sort of trick that
Speaker:sometimes like used car dealers will use.
Speaker:They say, Hey, I know you're a little nervous about buying this car.
Speaker:I, I would in that way.
Speaker:But what I found was it's just such a natural way of getting people over
Speaker:the hump to get them to, to change their, their perception of things.
Speaker:Incredibly powerful.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Alright, so while we have a story, how do we get it in the career
Speaker:site and more importantly, I think.
Speaker:We should spend a few minutes just talking about the power of a career
Speaker:site, where in the hierarchy of the conversation, the branding, the canned
Speaker:experience, where does the website live?
Speaker:And I know that you have a slightly vested interest in sharing career
Speaker:sites, and we're gonna own that bias.
Speaker:I'm there to kind of push back if I hear anything that sounds like, uh, I
Speaker:don't know, a sales pitch or anything.
Speaker:And so no, nothing to worry there.
Speaker:But you think about career sites a lot.
Speaker:So where do they live and how we should approach them in terms of.
Speaker:Is it just a billboard?
Speaker:Is it just a thing you pass on the way to something else?
Speaker:Um, and, and forgive the stupid question, but I've had this asked to
Speaker:me, do we even need a career site?
Speaker:I know it's crazy.
Speaker:He, I almost made him spit out.
Speaker:Can you believe that?
Speaker:That would've been lie.
Speaker:That would've been great.
Speaker:That's, that's the social clip right there.
Speaker:So, Brian, where do career sites fit in?
Speaker:Why do they matter?
Speaker:How do they all fit?
Speaker:So I, I guess the first thing is on average, um.
Speaker:A career site will deliver 10% of your branded online traffic to, to real estate.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, and if you, if you advertise a number of roles, you're gonna
Speaker:drive a lot of eyeballs to your brand and bring them to wherever you
Speaker:decide, um, you wanna bring them to.
Speaker:Uh, it could just be a job board and it could be tactically, mechanically
Speaker:a means of collecting data.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:But I think it's safe to say that, you know, we've already
Speaker:talked about it's not candidate experience, it's brand experience.
Speaker:Just on a very basic hygiene level, what do you want your brand experience to be?
Speaker:You know, do you want it?
Speaker:Do you wanna start that new relationship with frustration, anger, or, or
Speaker:worse?
Speaker:Gimme your information.
Speaker:Gimme, gimme, yeah, gimme the information.
Speaker:Apply for the job.
Speaker:Gimme, gimme, gimme.
Speaker:You know, um, a candidate will spend up to six to eight hours
Speaker:researching your organization before touching something that you own, as
Speaker:in like your digital real estate.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Um, you know, they're looking for what's the truth and all the rest of it.
Speaker:You may, as soon as they step foot onto your domain, you have the ability
Speaker:to control or heavily influence, you can never control fully, but
Speaker:heavily influence the narrative.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And how you present the jobs.
Speaker:The vacancies is an immediate indicator of how much you prioritize and value
Speaker:the people inside the organization compared to maybe the, the shiny shop
Speaker:window of when you're selling products or services or, you know, so and so forth.
Speaker:So, um, from a, from a brand equity perspective and just brand perception
Speaker:point of view, I think there's a great argument to, to at least be presentable.
Speaker:But even when you bring people to a career site, um, our data for years now has
Speaker:shown people aren't necessarily willing, ready, and able to just immediately
Speaker:go to guns and apply for a role.
Speaker:I. Yeah.
Speaker:You know, typically they want to be convinced and romanced a little bit.
Speaker:They've still got, um, some questions of, you've got their attention,
Speaker:but have you built affinity?
Speaker:You know, so this is your shop window.
Speaker:This is your time to shine.
Speaker:This is your ability to demonstrate.
Speaker:Some continuity between some of the reviews they might have read.
Speaker:Um, demonstrate the social proof of if it is a referral or something that's
Speaker:caught their eye on a billboard or whatever, demonstrate like, this is who
Speaker:we are, this is what we stand for, this is how it feels, this is what to expect.
Speaker:Answer some of those questions and draw people in, you know?
Speaker:And.
Speaker:Uh, all of the research has shown, in fact, one remarkable stat is
Speaker:if you have a video of your hiring manager on a job description,
Speaker:conversion can go up by up to 40%.
Speaker:That's crazy.
Speaker:On average, it's 23%, but we've seen spikes of, you know, so by visually
Speaker:engaging your audience and humanizing the experience on some level.
Speaker:Um, then, you know, the difference can be, can be remarkable.
Speaker:Um, we've recently been testing quick apply versus having to create
Speaker:an account and put in all your details and just, I dunno about you,
Speaker:I am literally allergic to forms.
Speaker:I will, I will go the long way round the world if it means I can sidestep,
Speaker:fill in a short, you know, but the, the difference, the difference.
Speaker:Is so crazy that like the evidence is clear.
Speaker:You, you have to consider irritation, frustration, uh, and the convenience
Speaker:and efficiency for your candidates these days because they're up
Speaker:against one click buy on Amazon.
Speaker:The, you know, the intuition of, um, Alexa plus listening to you
Speaker:whether you like it or not, and putting things, you know what I mean?
Speaker:It's.
Speaker:We're in a world of efficiency and convenience, you have
Speaker:to at least live up to that.
Speaker:Um, so a decent careers website environment where you can showcase
Speaker:your employer brand as it's supposed to be for me, is hygiene.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And let's, let's not forget.
Speaker:If you kind of mentally map out all the different platforms you use to
Speaker:kind of project your employer brand and promote your employer brand, your
Speaker:career site is the only one where you have a hundred percent control of what
Speaker:it is, what it says, what it looks like.
Speaker:All of that.
Speaker:Go ahead and go to LinkedIn and say, can we make the color green please?
Speaker:Mm, have fun.
Speaker:See how that plays out?
Speaker:If that's your branded color, that's good for you, but you're on somebody
Speaker:else's platform and they make the rules.
Speaker:How many photos can you put?
Speaker:What size photos, how?
Speaker:How much content can you put?
Speaker:Okay, can you put a video?
Speaker:Can you not put a video?
Speaker:That's you.
Speaker:You're living by their rules.
Speaker:Your career site is rules.
Speaker:You get to make up and you get to decide.
Speaker:What do I want to be telling?
Speaker:How do I wanna influence?
Speaker:'cause that's the place where you have maximum control over that content.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It is kind of balanced with the sense that you're right, only 10%
Speaker:of your, your potential eyeballs are ever gonna hit your career site.
Speaker:I'm also gonna guess a lot of the 90% who didn't go up, they weren't people
Speaker:here, they were people who just click a quick apply and got the heck outta Dodge.
Speaker:They weren't doing the research, they were not as invested.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And we all know people who do the research, who do the investing, who really
Speaker:kind of look around, they are almost always better candidates and better hire.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Amplify and optimize around the 10% who want to learn about
Speaker:you before they click apply.
Speaker:And not the 90% who are like, if, if we could make, if you think of the
Speaker:easy button, like, ah, hit the button.
Speaker:Hit the button, hit the button.
Speaker:Those people Yeah, you're, you don't need to optimize for them.
Speaker:They're already out there doing stuff.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, that's, I think that's a, a really valid point.
Speaker:Um, but, you know, let's look at it in.
Speaker:Um, financial terms.
Speaker:There's a lot of organizations that spend multiple millions of dollars every year in
Speaker:recruitment, marketing, and programmatic and Google ad AdWords and the like.
Speaker:Um, not to mention sort of live events and all the rest of it.
Speaker:Driving people intentionally to a career site.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Now that's like in e-commerce, that's like the product page.
Speaker:Where the buy button lives.
Speaker:And that is the sharp end of this entire attribution model of, you
Speaker:know, the top of the funnel right the way down to the bottom from
Speaker:a basic conversion perspective.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, the evidence is clear.
Speaker:It's not an argument anymore.
Speaker:Um, the more, um.
Speaker:You can showcase your employer brand and the more you can present an environment
Speaker:which answers the questions on your mind and eases the worries and concerns
Speaker:and issues, and sets expectations and has the information required to
Speaker:make a career decision, it's not, you know, we're not talking about.
Speaker:Buying candy bars at the, the supermarket here we're talking
Speaker:about a career decision.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, you know, and, you know, how much is the cost of a, a vacancy?
Speaker:I mean, we go down the rabbit hole of so many metrics that is hanging in the
Speaker:balance based on the impression that you create when a candidate visits whatever
Speaker:page you decide, uh, or deem important enough to put in front of them, you know.
Speaker:It has to be conversion worthy, you know?
Speaker:So, um, I would say take a look at your, uh, investment and your marketing dollars,
Speaker:and you could actually reduce that.
Speaker:Not that anyone would, but you could reduce it if you increase
Speaker:the conversion capability of where you take in the traffic.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:You just need to spend less money on ads if more people
Speaker:are buying anyway, so Totally.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:Alright, so once we've got the career site, we've done all the
Speaker:mapping and we know the journey and we're, we're put together, how do we
Speaker:validate that we're doing it right?
Speaker:And then what is the iteration process from there?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So it's not, it's not one and done, you know, it's not one and done.
Speaker:And I think, um.
Speaker:Just basic sort of NPS surveys and making sure that this is something that's
Speaker:being managed and maintained regularly.
Speaker:Um, is, is just, is just best practice.
Speaker:If you're gonna invest in this and sort of reimagine it, it needs to be,
Speaker:you know, what gets, um, measured.
Speaker:Gets, gets ma gets managed easy for me to say.
Speaker:Um, you know, so it's, it's as simple as that.
Speaker:And once you get the basic hygiene, you know, it's sort of do no wrong,
Speaker:live up to brand standards, you know, and all the sort of basic stuff
Speaker:we've talked about beyond there, you know, the levels of sophistication
Speaker:and refinements are, are endless.
Speaker:For example, um, do you think everybody that applies for a job
Speaker:at your organization should have the same candidate experience?
Speaker:Probably a sort of C-suite level, uh, leader should probably have a
Speaker:slightly different candidate experience to, you know, a call center exec
Speaker:or, you know, somebody in finance based sales and so and so forth.
Speaker:So this is where we can now start to personalize the experience.
Speaker:Save up content that's relevant to them, that answers, uh, their
Speaker:questions and speaks to them at the level that they're at.
Speaker:Maybe, you know, you skip a few.
Speaker:Steps if, if it's appropriate or, you know, so personalize the experience.
Speaker:Um, map an experience out that's relevant for the different, different personas.
Speaker:And then, um, measure each one, you know, and, and its rates as you go.
Speaker:It's just, it's, it's not rocket science.
Speaker:This James, you know, it, it really is just intentionally mapping, mapping
Speaker:out what looks great, segmenting to a degree that makes sense according
Speaker:to time and budget probably.
Speaker:And then, um, monitoring and iterating as you go to, to improve
Speaker:the metrics that you've decided upon.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So we're gonna skip the last step, which is Scaling Excellence, which you can read
Speaker:on the, the download over@peoplemba.com.
Speaker:Obviously.
Speaker:Thank you Plum for sponsoring this week.
Speaker:Uh, let's, we're running a little along here, so I wanna kind of jump ahead a bit
Speaker:to, we have also a whole lot of lists of.
Speaker:Things beyond the obvious things, beyond the basics.
Speaker:Is there one of those things you could pull out and say, maybe this is a
Speaker:surprising way, or a surprising channel, or a surprising opportunity to think
Speaker:about your candid experience living here?
Speaker:Yeah, so
Speaker:I go back to the sort of, you've mapped out the branded ex, um,
Speaker:the, the branded experience.
Speaker:Think about where do you have drop off or where do candidates ghost you,
Speaker:or where do they give you feedback, where they're most terrified,
Speaker:scared, confused, you know, whatever.
Speaker:And think about how can you create a moment of magic to fill those gaps.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:What are some examples of moments of magic?
Speaker:Because that's, it's a phrase you've used a couple times.
Speaker:I have a sense of what some of those things could be, but I bet
Speaker:you've got a good mental list of things that you've seen just Yeah.
Speaker:Or work magic, not to use that word too much.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So the favorite example that comes to mind, um, I was working with, um,
Speaker:Graham Johnson when he was a virgin.
Speaker:Uh, he's, he's now at, um, melon Entertainment.
Speaker:That was nearly 10 years ago.
Speaker:We, we, we mapped their candidate experience.
Speaker:We took it from negative to positive, but we wanted to go beyond
Speaker:just good candidate experience.
Speaker:And actually the mantra that Graham put out there was, we want candidates.
Speaker:To be a better version of themselves, having had the experience of
Speaker:applying for a job with us.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's a, that's a, that's a gorgeous high bar.
Speaker:And I, that's one of those things where even if you don't meet it, having the
Speaker:bar and setting it that high puts you light years ahead of so many people.
Speaker:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker:So at the time, Usain Bolt was the brand ambassador.
Speaker:And, um, we managed to get a few hours, uh, he was being filmed in
Speaker:the Caribbean for the marketing department, and the marketing department
Speaker:played ball, and I remember writing little scripts for Usain Bolt.
Speaker:And lo and behold, the next day these videos came back and it
Speaker:was Usain Bolt giving advice on how to prepare for a big event.
Speaker:Talking about, it's all about preparation.
Speaker:It was phenomenal.
Speaker:So now we sent that video to people the night before an interview.
Speaker:That's glorious.
Speaker:And at little moment of magic, they were not expecting, but you saying
Speaker:both, sending them a message about don't worry, you've got this, but
Speaker:you know, be prepared, be confident.
Speaker:Get a good night's sleep.
Speaker:We'll see you in the morning.
Speaker:Be at your best.
Speaker:It's like, oh my god.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:You can't always afford or get your hands on somebody like Usain Bolt to do that.
Speaker:But actually, if you replace that with the hiring manager you're gonna talk to or you
Speaker:replace it with the CEO, and even if it is the same video or whatever, maybe there's
Speaker:a few different iterations of something.
Speaker:That they're not expecting.
Speaker:That gives them a message, which speaks directly to how they're feeling right now.
Speaker:Demonstrates empathy and compassion and intentionality that goes above
Speaker:and beyond from my perspective.
Speaker:And you can deliver magic, but if it's unexpected,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:That's something that they will remember and tell their friends about, and
Speaker:maybe, maybe the next day they will feel like this is the place for me.
Speaker:Uh, like, uh, I do feel a little bit more confident.
Speaker:I am put at ease, you know, so maybe it can, there's a utility
Speaker:in that as well as just the, the feelings you get at the time.
Speaker:Yeah, and it, I think the, the unexpected is the, is the way to put it, because I
Speaker:think everybody knows what a candidate experience is gonna end up looking like.
Speaker:It's, you know, it's a slog, it's a gauntlet.
Speaker:I had someone tell, I had, I had a hiring manager tell me, this is going
Speaker:to be a gauntlet of a job interview.
Speaker:And I was like, well.
Speaker:Didn't you say the quiet part loud?
Speaker:Um, but to say, to do something unusual says that we know you,
Speaker:we see you, we care about you.
Speaker:We want you to succeed.
Speaker:We want you to do your best.
Speaker:I love things like sending the interview questions in advance.
Speaker:I think that should be a more standard thing because it says,
Speaker:we don't want to trick you.
Speaker:We want you to show us your best.
Speaker:And I think just the, the action of trying says almost as much if not as much as
Speaker:the thing that you've done itself, just.
Speaker:Showing, trying, putting that out there is everything.
Speaker:And you, you're right, you don't need Usain Bolt to kind of do this.
Speaker:You don't need a, a, a highly paid, uh, Olympian to do all this stuff.
Speaker:It just show that you get what's going on, and it will, it does amazing things.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Alright, well that's a good wrap up.
Speaker:So if you wanna read the entire seven step journey a little more in
Speaker:depth with a couple of maps to kind of check out as well as I'm guessing
Speaker:10 or 12, kind of beyond the basics ideas you should be stealing, go
Speaker:check out the download over our people mba.com sponsored this week by Plump.
Speaker:Thanks so much for the, for the sponsorship plump.
Speaker:Uh, we're gonna close here, but remember, leave us a voicemail.
Speaker:Just go to people mba.com to check, click the voicemail tab, leave us
Speaker:a question, leave us a comment.
Speaker:Go to YouTube, subscribe to us on podcasts, say nice things
Speaker:about us if it's useful.
Speaker:I've seen a lot of commentary on on LinkedIn, which is really nice.
Speaker:I would love it to kind of get, you know, out in the world so people see that stuff.
Speaker:Let people know.
Speaker:So we're here to help you get your seat at the table.
Speaker:Candid experience is just yet another piece of the puzzle.
Speaker:Ensuring the people you're bringing in are the right people, that they have the right
Speaker:experience, and it shows you're strategic, you're thoughtful, you're considerate,
Speaker:you're not just going through the motions and that's the stuff leadership.
Speaker:Leadership will see and eventually reward.
Speaker:So Brian, as always, thanks so much for a great conversation and
Speaker:uh, we'll see everybody next week.
Speaker:See you next week.
Speaker:So how was your experience exactly?
Speaker:Make sure to check out this week's downloadable guide on candid experience.
Speaker:I. It's a Scorcher.
Speaker:Anyway.
Speaker:If this has inspired you or helped you see new ways of getting things done,
Speaker:tell a friend about the podcast or point them to people mba.com later.
Speaker:Tater.
