Episode 6

full
Published on:

18th Feb 2025

Steal from the future, not from the past: 2025 TA Predictions

Are we a little late to the "predictions" game? Perhaps. But doesn't doesn't mean these eight mega-trends aren't real and necessary for talent acquisition leaders to grapple with. Because when you can see where things are headed, you can make sure to meet them there instead of having to play catch up.

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Transcript
James:

So I have misplaced my swami hat that allows me to see into the future.

James:

Brian has one.

James:

I don't know where his is.

James:

Um, his is, his is, is a little more svelte than mine, but we

James:

don't have to get into that.

James:

Uh, but we have looked into the, we have spent the time looking into our

James:

crystal balls, gazing into the, uh, tea leaves and the entrails of chickens and

James:

what have you, and we have discerned what the future holds for all of us.

James:

And today we're going to talk about tea leaves.

James:

Eight big predictions.

James:

And I mean, big, serious, Oh my God, you better take care of

James:

this stuff predictions for 2025.

James:

Is it too late for a 2025 prediction?

James:

No, there I've settled the subject.

James:

Thanks for asking.

James:

Okay.

James:

With that, we're about to get into what's going to happen in 2025.

Lady VO:

This is classic.

Lady VO:

They can see into the future.

Lady VO:

But they use this power to predict employer brand and recruiting trends

Lady VO:

rather than arbitrage the crypto market.

Lady VO:

Anyway, to get the full set of predictions, subscribe

Lady VO:

for freetopeoplemba.

Lady VO:

com.

Lady VO:

This episode is brought to you by Happy Dance Career Sites and

Lady VO:

Employer Brand Labs Brand Consulting.

Lady VO:

You've reached the People MBA.

Lady VO:

We're out shopping for our new global headquarters, so go

Lady VO:

ahead and talk after the beep.

John G:

Hey, James and Brian, John Graham, Shaker Recruitment Marketing.

John G:

Sorry I missed you.

John G:

Unfortunately, I had a hot one.

John G:

Wanted to get your takes on 2025's Employer branding, uh,

John G:

and recruitment marketing trends.

John G:

What's coming around the corner that you guys are seeing, uh, that

John G:

would help practitioners as well as folks, uh, like myself who consult.

John G:

Uh, always love your insights.

John G:

Appreciate everything you're doing.

John G:

Um, and looking forward to catching up soon.

John G:

Hope you guys are well.

James:

Okay, Brian, we're talking about predictions today.

James:

We see into the future.

James:

Um, I'm just we're starting with you.

James:

We're gonna back and forth this one.

James:

We're gonna play ping pong or table tennis or tennis, regular tennis

James:

or ground tennis, whatever you call it, whatever your particular

James:

back and forth game of choices.

James:

We're gonna start with one of your big predictions.

James:

So, Brian, Kick us off with a killer.

James:

Bring it.

Bryan A:

All right.

Bryan A:

Well, I've also well, you know what?

Bryan A:

I think I need to kick this off with a little bit of, um, a confession to be

Bryan A:

honest, James, because what you will see today is my predictions are closely

Bryan A:

aligned with what Happy dances, working on our tech roadmap and what my team has been

Bryan A:

tirelessly working on in the background to see what is definitely coming and

James:

your predictions.

James:

Oh my God.

Bryan A:

I do feel like, so I feel like a little bit of a cheat.

Bryan A:

I just didn't want to give you the opportunities to call me

Bryan A:

out in the middle of the exit.

Bryan A:

So

James:

I only saw one of them and I'm like, well, obviously that makes sense.

James:

I see where he comes from that, but all of them.

James:

All right.

James:

Interesting.

James:

Let's, let's jump in.

Bryan A:

Well, you know, you would be crazy not to use the predictions for the

Bryan A:

future to drive, you know, a tech roadmap and innovation and all that kind of stuff.

Bryan A:

But anyway, let's jump in.

Bryan A:

The first one is not going to be any surprise.

Bryan A:

It's around the use of AI driven personalization with a particular

Bryan A:

focus on candidate experience.

Bryan A:

And I specifically think this is the year where career websites, as you

Bryan A:

know it, I kind of die and it's time to get smarter and more personalized,

Bryan A:

much more immersive experience.

Bryan A:

And I think candidates are expecting this personalized, a seamless, personalized

Bryan A:

experience, because you're not up against your talent competitors, career website,

Bryan A:

you're up against Netflix and prime and, you know, um, tick tock and Instagram and

Bryan A:

all of these platforms that now are the norm in every other facet of our life.

Bryan A:

This is the year where career websites become particularly smart

Bryan A:

and personalized to really dial in and use the insights that actually

Bryan A:

most organizations have already got.

Bryan A:

They're just not putting them to great use.

James:

I'm going to ask you a tough question here.

James:

Cause the word personalization always kind of sticks in my crawl a little

James:

bit because I think most people, when they say personalization, they

James:

mean, Hey, James, you know, Hey, first name, we know you like title.

James:

And that's as much as it goes.

James:

I suspect you mean quite a bit more, especially since you've dropped

James:

the, uh, the letters A and I right there prominently on the deck.

James:

And by the way, we haven't mentioned you want to see the full deck,

James:

including recommendations on what to do with these predictions.

James:

Go check.

James:

For those of you, a long time listeners, you know exactly what I'm about to say.

James:

Go subscribe to people, NBA.

James:

com and download it.

James:

If you don't aren't subscribed, you should do so it's free and

James:

then you can download it for free.

James:

I love the word free.

James:

Okay.

James:

So talked about.

James:

What do you mean by personalization?

Bryan A:

So there's a number of, there's a number of aspects of

Bryan A:

personalization coming together here.

Bryan A:

And for a while, um, we've been able to look at the real time behavior of

Bryan A:

somebody visiting a site and start to tailor the, um, the content based on what

Bryan A:

they tell us they're interested in most.

Bryan A:

So if somebody starts to click around software engineer

Bryan A:

jobs, we know that about them.

Bryan A:

But then if they start to look at, jobs in Chicago, and there's a, or,

Bryan A:

you know, senior level, like we can take all of those variables and we

Bryan A:

can start to tailor an experience.

Bryan A:

And if we know that persona, the audience segment, and we've got a

Bryan A:

previous example of, um, data and research of what is typically important

Bryan A:

to those people in those roles.

Bryan A:

Then again, we can start to use those nuances and those persona

Bryan A:

insights to enrich the experience.

Bryan A:

with the priorities and preferences of our ideal talent.

Bryan A:

Now.

Bryan A:

So, so that's the first, that's like hygiene, right?

Bryan A:

When somebody starts to ask questions and interrogate and have a conversation

Bryan A:

with the platform, um, then obviously you've got further insights and very

Bryan A:

clear, uh, opportunity to signpost.

Bryan A:

Dig deeper and understand a little bit more about what

Bryan A:

your audience is looking for.

Bryan A:

So, um, that engagement and two way real time exchange allows a smart platform

Bryan A:

to not only serve up the answers to the questions, giving you great video employee

Bryan A:

stories that overcome objections or prove the point or answer specific inquiries.

Bryan A:

But also based on an understanding and knowledge of the employer brand

Bryan A:

and the particular proposition of the organization, you can

Bryan A:

start to serve in those messages in the most appropriate way.

Bryan A:

So it's all about contextual personalized engagements on a platform, which is.

Bryan A:

focused on not just positive candidate experience, but

Bryan A:

really effective, efficient.

Bryan A:

Um, experiences that should lead to better career decisions.

Bryan A:

Sometimes it might be actually the job sounds cool.

Bryan A:

The pay is great.

Bryan A:

The location is, but the culture isn't kind of stuff.

Bryan A:

And, you know, I think we're definitely now headed towards

Bryan A:

leveraging EVP in a smart way.

Bryan A:

So we start to get a higher percentage of valued applicants and that should

Bryan A:

automatically lead to a much more positive candidate experience of the candidates

Bryan A:

that choose to go down that path.

James:

And that's, that's, that's to me where EVP thinking should be,

James:

not how do I wallpaper, you know, the building with we're great.

James:

We're great.

James:

You know, we have great culture and all this other bullshit,

James:

but to say it's a filter.

James:

Right?

James:

We're a company that cares about X. If you care about X two, you should consider us.

James:

And if you don't care about X, thank you for playing.

James:

This is, you know, and it's a filter for both ways.

James:

Are you the kind of person who likes what we offer?

James:

Then you should consider us.

James:

So thinking about an EVP beyond the pretty pictures and all

James:

that, whatnot, that I love that.

James:

And that's where the application starts to show up where that idea of hat,

James:

what content do we present to you?

James:

How do we present ourselves to you?

James:

What do you need to know based on our understanding of the brand

James:

and our understanding of you?

James:

I love that.

Bryan A:

Yeah, so without the smart technology, we've only been able

Bryan A:

to use strategy and content to try and steer people towards that.

Bryan A:

But now we can do it at scale.

Bryan A:

And this is the year that personalization, not just amplifies EVP, but use

Bryan A:

it as, um, as a really sharp tool.

Bryan A:

What sort of wheels it as a really sort of effective weapon to not just

Bryan A:

create more volume of applicants knowing that there's some needles in

Bryan A:

the haystack, but trying to be smarter.

Bryan A:

It's a smart filter with just getting a higher percentage of valued apps.

Bryan A:

And that should take the pressure off recruiters, give

Bryan A:

more time to hire managers.

Bryan A:

So for the, for the candidate experience that actually does rely on

Bryan A:

people, they've got more bandwidth and they've got more confidence that the

Bryan A:

person speaking to is a better fit.

James:

And I think it kind of segues pretty cleanly into what I'm talking

James:

about from a different point of view.

James:

So my first prediction is about the glut of content.

James:

Now, I'm a content marketer at heart.

James:

That's where I kind of cut my teeth in terms of how I started marketing.

James:

Um, if there is an opportunity to tell a story, if there's an opportunity to

James:

build content, I always jump at it.

James:

It is my natural instinct.

James:

inclination.

James:

There's too much of it.

James:

There's just way, way too much of it.

James:

We went from 10 years ago.

James:

If you just wrote a blog post once a month, You were liable to

James:

get an award of some sort, right?

James:

We're going to point to you and say, look, they're good.

James:

What they're doing is a blog post once a month.

James:

Oh my God.

James:

It was radical.

James:

And now you're publishing blog posts every week.

James:

You're posting social content two, three times a day.

James:

You're on Tik TOK.

James:

You're building profiles.

James:

You're building videos.

James:

You're building, you're building, you're building, and guess what?

James:

You're no better off than you were.

James:

And I think what we're hitting is the sense of.

James:

If everybody's building content, how do you surface what's useful?

James:

And I think that's where I say it goes hand in hand with a

James:

sense of personalization, that sense of what do I need to know?

James:

What is useful for me to get to see?

James:

No one can see all the content, but we want them to make informed choices.

James:

So what do we do to really allow us to Build the content

James:

that's going to move the needle.

James:

That's going to change minds.

James:

That's going to help people understand what we're offering.

James:

And of course, the old chat GPT sprinkled on top of it just, you

James:

know, pours fuel on the fire.

James:

It just makes it into a bonfire.

James:

We're just going to see more and more content.

James:

But it's going to just I tend to operate on the mentality of if it's easy to

James:

do a thing Everyone's doing a thing.

James:

Therefore, you shouldn't do a thing because it's not nearly as effective

James:

if only you were doing it, and that's really where we're heading.

James:

So now we need to kind of start to rethink for my content strategy.

James:

More is not better.

James:

What can I say?

James:

Where can I say it to my audience?

James:

Stop having the big wide focus and have a super tight, tight, tight, narrow focus.

James:

Who am I trying to speak to?

James:

What do they need to hear?

James:

When do they need to hear it?

James:

How do I put it in front of them?

James:

That needs to be more of the strategy rather than just build

James:

more, put it on more channels quick, you know, cut and paste it

James:

for this channel and that channel.

James:

And oh, look, there's a new channel.

James:

Paste it there too.

James:

That is kind of killing everybody.

Bryan A:

So fast forward 12 months then, what's, what is the prediction?

Bryan A:

What has changed in 12 months time basis now?

James:

I would like the mentality.

James:

Okay.

James:

We've played the let chat GPT generate all our content.

James:

We've all learned, we've learned the tricks of do it

James:

in the voice of Seth Godin.

James:

Oh, it doesn't sound as bad now.

James:

Oh yeah.

James:

Those are all hacks.

James:

Those are all tricks.

James:

We can all do them right now.

James:

I like to think in 12 months, we've kind of run through those tricks.

James:

We said, okay.

James:

The world is literally in 12 months will have 10 times more content.

James:

Nobody can move.

James:

Nobody can find the content they want even in their own company.

James:

There will have to be a reckoning that says, okay, more content.

James:

Easy content is not serving us.

James:

Let's tell one story.

James:

Let's tell it in a compelling way.

James:

Let's find that story and think more movie.

James:

And less TikTok, right?

James:

Okay.

James:

How do I tell something in five, 10 minutes and then pull bits of it out and

James:

use them as tiktoks and use those in the places to kind of draw people into this

James:

narrative, draw people into this story so that people go, oh, this is interesting.

James:

And they do that lean forward trick.

James:

That's where I would like us to get closer to.

Bryan A:

So.

Bryan A:

Obviously, there's a difference between what you would like to happen

Bryan A:

and what you think will happen.

Bryan A:

But are

James:

you

Bryan A:

saying that you, you foresee this year content strategy will mature

Bryan A:

through away from the, um, um, the infancy of more is better to more

Bryan A:

targeted insights and doubling down on, um, More quality and resonating

Bryan A:

more with, with persona insights.

Bryan A:

So, I mean, there's a lot in there.

Bryan A:

Are you predicting that organizations are going to do more, more research

Bryan A:

and get to know the talent segments more and just focusing like.

James:

I don't think they need to do that.

James:

I think that they thought about it for a half a minute.

James:

They already know, they already have it to know.

James:

I also want to admit that the broad spectrum of talent acquisition,

James:

employer brand teams is very wide.

James:

There are people over on this side who are coding and building their own home

James:

brew algorithms and good for them.

James:

And there are people over here who still work on spreadsheets.

James:

And to say that we're all moving in one direction.

James:

Well, plenty of people aren't even ATS.

James:

Some people aren't even mobile friendly, for God's sake.

James:

What year is this?

James:

So what I'm really looking at is that the lead sled dogs here who are

James:

realizing more is not serving us.

James:

How do we go deeper?

James:

How do we get more interesting?

James:

How do we go more compelling?

James:

How do we build a true people brand on top of this idea of

James:

what it's like to work here?

Bryan A:

All right, cool.

Bryan A:

Okay, cool.

Bryan A:

So I hope you're right.

Bryan A:

All right.

Bryan A:

So my next one is closely aligned with what you just said, actually.

Bryan A:

So there might even be a little bit of overlap.

Bryan A:

Maybe I've come at it from a slightly different way.

Bryan A:

But, um, and you've already mentioned chat GPT.

Bryan A:

But my next prediction is GPT's will redefine job search because

Bryan A:

I think the GPT interface, I Is flipping job search on its head.

Bryan A:

Candidates are asking more complex conversational questions.

Bryan A:

And with that becomes more specificity and opportunity to react as a brand.

Bryan A:

Um, but it's definitely creating the need.

Bryan A:

The new need.

Bryan A:

To answer those questions in a different way.

Bryan A:

So search is moving from simple, um, keywords, matching contextual

Bryan A:

understanding, meaning job descriptions need to be much more rich.

Bryan A:

And, you know, I would include, um, Team videos, location insights,

Bryan A:

um, answers to typical questions.

Bryan A:

Um, not just in a, uh, frequently asked questions format, you

Bryan A:

know, so my prediction to buy by the end of 2025 companies.

Bryan A:

That failed to adapt their job descriptions to a more conversational

Bryan A:

model will begin to lose visibility outside of their career site.

Bryan A:

And typically, like, historically, I might have said in search engines.

Bryan A:

But no,

Bryan A:

it's now the several GPTs that people are using over and above the search engines.

Bryan A:

So the interesting thing here is at the bottom of this prediction is,

Bryan A:

is this search engine optimization becomes GPT optimization and how to get

Bryan A:

listed and ranked and visible in GPTs.

Bryan A:

And the way to do that is actually going, um, finishing where I started is to

Bryan A:

do what you said just earlier is more specific, focused, deeper content that is

Bryan A:

positioned more conversationally around the, uh, the persona insights that you

Bryan A:

really care about, the positions that you're trying to fill, but we're also

Bryan A:

adding a layer of, um, localization.

Bryan A:

As well, you know, so it's not just software engineers globally.

Bryan A:

Let's dominate that and rank for it

James:

as if they're all the same.

Bryan A:

Yeah, exactly.

Bryan A:

This is about, okay.

Bryan A:

We need 50 software engineers in Austin.

Bryan A:

Now we need to talk about what software engineers, mid level junior and senior

Bryan A:

specifically want to know about that role.

Bryan A:

In that city, in your culture, in your team, and, you know, that gives

Bryan A:

you such a rich, rich opportunity of slicing and dicing that one subject

Bryan A:

and go, you know, inch wide, mildly.

Bryan A:

Um, and if you don't do that, you're not going to rank, you're not going

Bryan A:

to appear in this, in this, Broad stage terms on GPTs, your traffic

Bryan A:

is gonna go down and you will lose.

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James:

Not everybody who's listening to us is going to

James:

understand what you mean by GPT.

James:

So I'm going to add an example, a way of thinking about it.

James:

That is not accurate, but is useful.

James:

And that is if you go to Google and you search for something, you notice

James:

there's that box at the top that is AI generated, it's Gemini generated.

James:

That's Google's AI.

James:

It that's what that is.

James:

That's what we're talking about.

James:

We're talking about the AI GPT running around, looking

James:

at information, concatenating, distilling, focusing, and saying.

James:

We think this is what you think the answer, what you're looking for.

James:

When you think ChatGP, or when you think about custom GPTs, think in that regard,

James:

this idea that it's not It's not answering a question or having a fun conversation.

James:

It is distilling a much wider spectrum of information than, you know, what

James:

you'd get from a Google, standard Google search, where it's like, oh, here's what

James:

G Classdoor says, here's what Indeed says, here's what Canoonew says, here's

James:

what their career site says, here's what somebody complaining on Blind says,

James:

here's what, here's what, here's what.

James:

This is taking all of it and putting it in one spot.

James:

So I just want to make that clear because I don't, I still think

James:

the concept of custom GPTs or just GPTs in general are still.

James:

Very tip of the spear for a lot of people.

James:

It's still very bleeding edge.

Bryan A:

Yeah, absolutely.

Bryan A:

Absolutely.

Bryan A:

Um, Um, but it's, it's on, it's, it's here, it's not going away

James:

here.

James:

This is not a science fiction thing.

Bryan A:

And it's put a massive dent into the, um, the usership of Google

Bryan A:

and other search engines massively.

James:

I, I want everybody who has the power to do so, to go to your Google

James:

analytics right now, pause this.

James:

We will, we will, we'll be, we'll freeze.

James:

Right.

James:

Okay.

James:

So while go to it and see how much traffic is coming from Google organic search.

James:

I have seen, I don't know, Brian, you may not have seen this as a newsletter.

James:

I saw it just the other day.

James:

They showed hub spots, SEO traffic, meaning organic from Google

James:

traffic over the last five years.

James:

And it is increasing, increasing, increasing.

James:

And over the last six months has fallen to a 10th of what it was six months ago.

James:

Or what we think of as search engine optimization is Google

James:

search engine optimization.

James:

May in fact be dead, like not like next month or not year now already dead.

James:

Go check your search.

James:

Go check your analytics.

James:

It's probably happening right now.

James:

And you don't even realize it.

Bryan A:

Absolutely.

James:

Okay.

James:

So I want to point out, by the way, we didn't compare notes.

James:

We built these predictions completely independently, and I'm fascinated

James:

by how they're dovetailing so clearly, really interesting.

Bryan A:

It's cool.

Bryan A:

Actually.

James:

My next prediction dovetails into this, and mine is about

James:

the same idea but via social.

James:

Right now, who, who, who, who wants to go to TikTok?

James:

Anybody?

James:

Or who wants to go to, anybody trust TikTok will be around in six months?

James:

Or that it won't be owned by a certain muskrat?

James:

Who wants to deal with Twitter these days, right?

James:

Ugh, who wants to deal with anything Zuckerberg touches?

James:

Okay, like the days of big social are done.

James:

John, um, you know, there, we've been joking for the last five years that

James:

Facebook is where your mom thinks social media is, well, welcome,

James:

we're here for everything else.

James:

It's this idea of big companies, big money, taking over and killing

James:

and, and, what's the term, uh, shitification of social media?

James:

We're here, folks.

James:

We're here.

James:

So you can't rely, you just can't assume, even LinkedIn.

James:

I have some real issues with LinkedIn lately, just on how

James:

it's trying to get a message out.

James:

Not a spammy message, but a useful, valuable message.

James:

Social media, channel distribution, channel selection has to be decentralized.

James:

You can't rely on the big four, the big five anymore.

James:

You have to think about where other places you can build that content.

James:

And interestingly, to tie into what Brian just said.

James:

If you start building on Reddit, and you start building on Medium, and you start

James:

building on, I don't know, wherever.

James:

Like, Substack.

James:

Substack is a great channel.

James:

You, you should absolutely be considering that.

James:

If you're building on these, Blue Sky, right?

James:

What the hell?

James:

Get on that.

James:

Just don't treat it like a Twitter account.

James:

Yep.

James:

Red Note.

Bryan A:

Try it.

James:

There's so many places you can be building content, and these GPTs

James:

will be searching those places as well.

James:

So don't feel like five years ago you had to be on Twitter because

James:

everybody else was on Twitter.

James:

Those days are gone.

James:

Right now the sense of You have to be on a channel and

James:

own that channel to have value.

James:

It's not quite as true anymore.

James:

And if you're optimizing around what GPTs are doing, you need to be in places

James:

where they're scanning and they're reading, but also places where you can

James:

tell your compelling story clearly.

Bryan A:

Oh, I couldn't agree with you more.

Bryan A:

And I'm going to, I'm going to throw something into the mix here.

Bryan A:

Let me see what you think.

Bryan A:

Um, the GPTs are, um, it's expensive for them to consume information.

Bryan A:

And the, what they're starting with the most credible authoritative sources first.

Bryan A:

Yeah.

Bryan A:

So the, from an SEO point of view, it used to like backlinks and

Bryan A:

blogging and this kind of stuff.

Bryan A:

Remember when, uh, online PR was a thing like, and it sort of, you know, came in,

Bryan A:

it's a fashion now and all the rest of it.

Bryan A:

I think we're going to see that coming back

John G:

where

Bryan A:

we can place your content in very credible places, high authority domains.

Bryan A:

And that's a sort of fast, fast track pass, like a Disney, you know,

Bryan A:

go to the front of the queue of how to get your content indexed on, uh,

Bryan A:

these, these other, other places.

Bryan A:

You mentioned Reddit.

Bryan A:

That's a huge, huge, huge opportunity that is underused, but we're going to see,

Bryan A:

we're going to see stuff like Strava and Spotify and all these weird and wonderful

Bryan A:

community based, you know, the diversity of getting your content out there.

Bryan A:

I couldn't agree with you more, James, and.

Bryan A:

And there's a little bonus prediction.

Bryan A:

I might be just getting too excited.

Bryan A:

There's a feel free to challenge.

Bryan A:

I think we're going to see by the end of this year, lots and lots and lots

Bryan A:

of brands, the majority of brands will have learned from their analytics and

Bryan A:

the past 12 months mistakes to radically reduce their paid media spend in terms

Bryan A:

of using programmatic and just trying to buy clicks to get people to look at job.

Bryan A:

That's, this is now a conversational world.

Bryan A:

Where sustainable content production of high quality in the right

Bryan A:

authoritative places wins and you can't just buy, buy attention anymore.

Bryan A:

That transactional approach has a shelf life and it's fast running out.

James:

Yeah, I think when you're thinking about channel selection, you

James:

should think about any place where one person can make another friend.

James:

That's a valid channel to live on.

James:

Any place where you can make a connection and have a one on

James:

one, one on group or group on one conversation, that is a valid channel.

James:

And I think what you're seeing is TA finally embracing the sense that

James:

social media content production is not who can build the biggest megaphone.

James:

It's about who can have better conversations, meaningful conversations,

James:

and those don't scale quite the same way.

James:

And you can't just.

James:

Pay to make them happen.

James:

So I, I didn't make that a prediction because I think it's this big mega

James:

prediction that you'll start to see over the next five years is, you know, the

James:

megaphone concept starts to fall away.

James:

But it's really about building those relationships, which is great for

James:

what we're trying to do and what we think the industry should be doing.

James:

That is building more relationships with candidates and prospects.

James:

But it is a significant shift.

James:

And I do want to point out that you mentioned looking at your

James:

analytics because I suspect yeah.

James:

That has something to do with your next prediction.

Bryan A:

Ah, look, you're so smooth, I'll tell you what.

Bryan A:

It's

James:

not just the haircut, sir, it's not just the

Bryan A:

haircut.

Bryan A:

All right, so my next prediction is employer branding will

Bryan A:

be a data driven discipline.

Bryan A:

To a certain degree, you know, it always has been, but, you know, from a

Bryan A:

manual perspective, but I think employer branding is no longer going to be A

Bryan A:

guessing game where you do, you do the research, you do the listening, you gather

Bryan A:

up everything, and then you rely on a strategist to have divine intervention,

Bryan A:

connect some dots and come up with.

Bryan A:

Some ideas based on the art of creative, you know, I think, I think again

Bryan A:

with, with AI, it's turning into a much more data driven discipline and

Bryan A:

this couldn't have come soon enough.

Bryan A:

This is going to help elevate the whole industry.

Bryan A:

So it's more credible and taken more seriously, frankly, especially when a

Bryan A:

leadership is being asked to buy into it.

Bryan A:

and drive the organization based on the recommendation.

Bryan A:

So I think with real time analytics and sentiment tracking, we can now pinpoint

Bryan A:

exactly what resonates with candidates.

Bryan A:

And that helps us craft clear, compelling messages.

Bryan A:

The attract the right value, um, culture, add and culture

Bryan A:

match and repel the wrong one.

Bryan A:

Something, you know, I've been talking about for a long time, but now data and

Bryan A:

insight gives us the ability to do that.

Bryan A:

So the prediction 2025.

Bryan A:

Data backed employer brand strategies will become the norm.

Bryan A:

Um, and those relying on guesswork and doing it the long handed old fashioned

Bryan A:

manual way of just listening and sort of distilling, um, by hand, uh, they're

Bryan A:

going to lose because, you know, this is kind of not to go off track too much

Bryan A:

here, but this kind of reminds me of, um, money ball, you know, when I was going to,

Bryan A:

I'm so glad I said it first.

Bryan A:

Yes, because this is like the Oakland days just literally coming out of

Bryan A:

nowhere and you know, it's not about the scout listening to the crack of

Bryan A:

the ball or, you know, watching how someone stands and just having a

Bryan A:

gut feel about how it's going to be.

Bryan A:

It's, it's use the data, use the data, use data that gives us the ability to

Bryan A:

align with business strategy, elevate what we're doing and have more certainty

Bryan A:

in the recommendations and the messaging.

Bryan A:

So use data backed insights to refine your employer brand and craft realistic

Bryan A:

previews of roles and attract candidates aligned with the culture and expectations.

Bryan A:

And if this isn't the year for that, I'm going to really, really,

Bryan A:

really be disappointed because we've got all the tools we need.

Bryan A:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah.

James:

And I, full disclosure, I read Moneyball or listen to Moneyball

James:

at least once every two years.

James:

It's phenomenal.

James:

And that is, it's probably being conservative.

James:

I probably listen to it more.

James:

I probably try to not embarrass myself, but then every time I've read and

James:

listened to it, and I literally just finished listening to it two days ago.

James:

And I want to remind everybody, everybody gets distracted by the message.

James:

Everybody thinks it's about, Oh, metrics matter.

James:

Well, baseball always had metrics.

James:

They were just looking at the wrong ones.

James:

They weren't looking at the metrics that.

James:

Created the outcomes they were looking for.

James:

They were looking for runs batted in a number of of home runs.

James:

They were looking for lots of things that were easy to measure, things

James:

that they were already calculating and already kept keeping track of.

James:

And what the A's were doing was saying, are those generating runs

James:

and are those generating wins?

James:

How do we think about what baseball is to say, what are

James:

the numbers that really matter?

James:

Which means, The big shift that has to happen is you are not

James:

here to collect applications.

James:

You're here to get great hires.

James:

That is the outcome.

James:

The number one, not even close.

James:

Don't call the jury to order thing that matters.

James:

So the metrics have to be around hires.

James:

So the next time you start to talk about how many applications or will

James:

this raise or lower applications stop.

James:

Don't do that.

James:

Not useful.

James:

Talk about anything that metrics that connect to a better

James:

or faster or useful higher.

James:

That's just want to kind of put that out there.

Bryan A:

Love that.

Bryan A:

Love that.

Bryan A:

Thanks for explaining my prediction better than me, James.

Bryan A:

Yeah, you

James:

know what?

James:

You can get credit for bringing Moneyball in.

James:

That's fair.

James:

That's fair.

James:

That's fair.

James:

It's a team effort.

James:

And by the way, way to bring sports into yet another episode of the People MPA.

James:

Every single damn time.

James:

My pleasure.

Bryan A:

My pleasure.

Bryan A:

Okay.

James:

Alright, my third prediction gets scary.

James:

This is, I, I don't want to talk about it.

James:

I'm terrified of talking about it.

James:

You should be also terrified of having to deal with this,

James:

but deal with it, you must.

James:

And that is, you are not allowed to ignore politics anymore.

James:

I'm sorry.

James:

I'm sorry, and I don't care where you're living.

James:

This is not just a purely United States sort of situation.

James:

It is Canada.

James:

It is Mexico.

James:

It is the UK.

James:

It is EMEA.

James:

It is all places.

James:

Politics cannot be ignored any longer.

James:

It has been, with all kind of, most companies have taken, with the exception

James:

of your REIs and, you know, a couple of handful of other companies, they've

James:

taken the Michael Jordan approach of, Hey, I don't want to talk about

James:

that stuff because As he so, you know, as he was so well known for

James:

saying, Republicans buy shoes too.

James:

Every business has, for the most part, has tried to say, we

James:

don't want to piss anybody off.

James:

You can't avoid this any longer.

James:

Just in the 24th, we've been in the Trump administration for exactly four days and

James:

we're already going, oh crap, we can't ignore the DEI stuff, the immigration

James:

stuff, the, I mean, the Tax and please.

James:

There's so many situations that companies are going to have to take a stand.

James:

It's not something you could ignore.

James:

You can't play ostrich.

James:

You can't pretend.

James:

You have to say this company stands for that.

James:

You can either make that choice.

James:

And try to hedge your bets and, you know, Mr. Miyagi and say in

James:

the middle of Squish Like Grape.

James:

Or you can say, how do I say taking a stand leads to better outcomes,

James:

both on a employer brand standpoint and a consumer brand standpoint.

James:

And that requires a lot more thought and a lot more conversation.

James:

But it doesn't just happen.

James:

It doesn't happen with a press release.

James:

It doesn't happen by, uh, I hope this doesn't happen.

James:

It doesn't, I don't want to deal with this.

James:

It doesn't happen By accident or by avoiding it, you

James:

have to face this head on.

Bryan A:

So really brave.

Bryan A:

And I think it's really insightful of the time.

Bryan A:

I love that.

Bryan A:

I want to press you on what's the prediction.

Bryan A:

What's the tangible thing that's changed in 12 months time.

Bryan A:

And what is your advice around that difference?

James:

I think it's going to be very clear where companies are going to stand.

James:

Right?

James:

Right now, if you want to know what Target thinks about an issue, you can go

James:

look at who they're donating to, and you can look at press releases, and let's

James:

be fair, everybody donates to everybody these days, so that's not useful data

James:

all the time, but the fact that they are donated to everybody says, oh, you're

James:

just in it to kind of play the game.

James:

Companies are going to be very clear.

James:

They are going to take more of that REI standpoint of this is what we care

James:

about, this is what we believe, it's in our values, therefore we disagree with,

James:

for example, this is very topical, this removal of DEI as a consideration set.

James:

Any kind of sense that, um, Any good civil rights work about treating people with

James:

disabilities, or alternate sexualities, or anybody who isn't a white dude, right?

James:

Let's just be, say what it is here, okay?

James:

Anybody who ain't a white dude doesn't get the same kind of benefits and

James:

rights that every, that white dudes do.

James:

Anything like that.

James:

You have to stand up.

James:

And I think in 12 months time, we will find probably like multiple

James:

ripple effects of this one.

James:

Companies will stand up and say, we don't agree with this, or we do agree with this.

James:

And I suspect there could be plenty of companies who say right on.

James:

And I want to point out who was at the inauguration.

James:

Just say anyway, moving on.

James:

You could do your own research as they say.

James:

Once that happens, though, You're going to lose customers.

James:

You're going to have a pushback.

James:

You're going to have blowback.

James:

How do you respond?

James:

Do you, uh, okay, whatever, whatever you want, or are you going to stand by it?

James:

And if you stand by it, there's a whole audience of people who are

James:

going to be like, yes, finally, and they will step behind you.

James:

There's no winning this game.

James:

There's only, how do you smartly fight the game?

James:

And to me, the prediction of where we are in 12 months ago, it's just

James:

simply companies will not kind of say we're here for everybody.

James:

Cause nobody can be these days.

Bryan A:

Okay.

Bryan A:

So I think, I think what's needed here is.

Bryan A:

It's a strategic policy and if you look at your mission, vision, values, your

Bryan A:

EVP, your employer brand, what you say you stand for, what you want to be known for.

Bryan A:

And if you've, if you've done the work and you've defined the reputation as

Bryan A:

an employer and the reputation as an organization, then actually it should make

Bryan A:

it pretty easy to write a policy of look, these are things that we are aligned with.

Bryan A:

These are things that we are posed with.

Bryan A:

However, These are the things that aren't worth our time commenting on at all.

Bryan A:

These are the conversations we have no business having an opinion on.

Bryan A:

And it's just a lose, lose if we even engage, you know, because there's so

Bryan A:

much, so some organizations jumping on the bandwagon of converse of,

Bryan A:

of politicized issues and they've got no business being there.

Bryan A:

There's no benefit, you know, so.

Bryan A:

I think there's, I think the key here, and I think we'll see smart brands

Bryan A:

emerge to double down on the issues and things that they've been aligned

Bryan A:

with that resonate with who they are all along, if they're smart and make a

Bryan A:

choice of look, we're not even going to.

Bryan A:

We're not going to get into those conversations unless pressed

Bryan A:

for, for, for some reason.

James:

Yeah.

James:

And it's not a, a, a fear based response that you're not going

James:

to get in those conversations.

James:

It's that we all know the next four plus years are going to be a,

James:

of just the situations coming and you've got to pick your fights.

James:

You got to pick the places where you're like, I am fully 100 percent committed

James:

to be for or against that thing and make that your fight, make that the

James:

hill you're going to stand and fight on.

James:

Exactly.

Bryan A:

And it should be.

Bryan A:

You should do that in order to prove what you claim as an organization, as a brand.

James:

Yeah.

James:

It, this is the time in which you discover if your EV, your EVP and your

James:

culture, your mission, your values, are they just posters or are they real?

James:

There you go.

Bryan A:

Love that.

James:

All right.

James:

What you got next?

James:

What's your last one?

Bryan A:

All right.

Bryan A:

So again, I mean, there's a sort of theme going right the way through these.

Bryan A:

But, uh, um, and this is more of a wish and a hope, but I

Bryan A:

do, I do see signs of this.

Bryan A:

EVP strategies.

Bryan A:

The employer brand will align much closer this year with

Bryan A:

business critical capabilities.

James:

I love the wording on that.

James:

I just want to, that's a great way to put that.

Bryan A:

Thank you.

Bryan A:

And I also see this, this is the year where organizations are brave

Bryan A:

enough to talk about employer brand.

Bryan A:

Um, business strategy and culture in the same conversation.

Bryan A:

Um, you know, so that means EVP will become more than a promise,

Bryan A:

but a blueprint for actually building the capabilities your

Bryan A:

business needs to succeed.

Bryan A:

Yeah, you know, and I think by aligning EVP messaging with skills and behaviors,

Bryan A:

um, that drive strategic outcomes like innovation or efficiency or, you know,

Bryan A:

You're intentionally shaping the culture needed to drive your business goals.

Bryan A:

This is a hope, and there are signs that it can be a strong prediction.

Bryan A:

If that happens, And I've got everything crossed that it will, we are now starting

Bryan A:

to see a new generation of maturity for employer brand strategy being talked about

Bryan A:

a much higher level in an organization.

Bryan A:

So everything's crossed.

Bryan A:

Yeah,

James:

this is, this is very much our wheelhouse of what we're trying to do.

James:

The reason we're trying to say employer brand TA is part

James:

of getting to see the table.

James:

I feel like I'm almost sick of hearing myself say it.

James:

And I imagine y'all are sick of hearing me saying it, but sick

James:

of hearing it, but it's true.

James:

Right.

James:

This is what it's about.

James:

You don't get your seat of the table by causing a ruckus and

James:

just being a pain in the ass.

James:

You get your seat of the table because it's clear how you're adding value

James:

to the larger company objectives.

James:

And I also see these signs, these telltale conversations at the right places from

James:

the right people, that this is where this stuff needs to happen, that you're,

James:

you know, that the conversations around the pretty pictures are starting to be,

James:

oh, that's, you know, The way we used to do it, and we are starting to focus on

James:

how do I get in front of the leadership?

James:

How do I make my case?

James:

How do I connect the dot between great hires and growth of the company?

James:

How do I make that happen?

James:

And the seeds are being planted and have been planted for a while.

James:

They're just starting to finally sprout at last.

Bryan A:

Absolutely.

Bryan A:

Absolutely.

Bryan A:

So the download this week, James, is a summary of everything we've talked about.

Bryan A:

But with some added recommendations, if people want to jump on top of

Bryan A:

these predictions or get ahead of them or, you know, see how we

Bryan A:

would approach any of these things.

Bryan A:

I think the majority of them are sort of Headed our way.

Bryan A:

You know, there's just, yeah.

Bryan A:

You know, there seems to be a lot of cohesion between what we've said

Bryan A:

there, which is interesting 'cause we genuinely didn't particularly compare

Bryan A:

notes and you know, that kind stuff.

Bryan A:

So.

Bryan A:

No.

Bryan A:

Um, oh, your crystal ball's ringing . There you go.

Bryan A:

I cheated.

Bryan A:

I did tell you.

Bryan A:

I didn't tell you it wasn't.

Bryan A:

I know it's there.

Bryan A:

It's right there.

Bryan A:

So much cheated.

Bryan A:

Ah, leave it in.

Bryan A:

It's fine.

John G:

It's fine.

Bryan A:

Um, but yeah, head over to, uh, people mba.com.

Bryan A:

Download the, the download.

Bryan A:

Digest what we've said, challenge any of the predictions, add to it, ask

Bryan A:

us questions with the, uh, the, the voicemail on the, on the site as well.

Bryan A:

We wanna answer some more of your questions and keep the conversation going.

Bryan A:

And we've, it's important we times timestamped this James.

Bryan A:

'cause I hope in 12 months time we'll look back on this.

Bryan A:

Some of them are gonna be flat as a pancake.

Bryan A:

Some of them are gonna be nailed on.

James:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah.

Bryan A:

Let's, uh, we'll just have to wait and find out, won't we?

James:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah.

James:

We'll see you in a year.

James:

We'll just make a date right now.

James:

We'll check in January 24th, 2026 and see where things land.

James:

There you go.

James:

There you go.

James:

All right, everybody.

James:

Thanks so much.

James:

Make sure to subscribe to PeopleMBA.

James:

com and thanks for the conversation.

James:

By the way, we started to get voicemails.

James:

Thank you.

James:

They're interesting.

James:

They're really starting to lead us in an interesting direction

James:

of where we're taking this next.

James:

So we appreciate it and appreciate all the feedback.

James:

So we will see you next week for, I don't even know what we're talking

James:

about next week, but that's all right.

James:

That's for us to figure out.

Bryan A:

See you next week, folks.

Bryan A:

It's good.

Bryan A:

It's a mystery.

James:

We'll figure it out.

James:

All right.

Lady VO:

Are you still here?

Lady VO:

Really?

Lady VO:

Well, that's a choice.

Lady VO:

If you've got a thing for making questionable choices, subscribe

Lady VO:

to the People MBA at peoplemba.

Lady VO:

com.

Lady VO:

It's a whole lot better than watching the news.

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About the Podcast

The People MBA
Helping Talent leaders Get Their Seat At The Table
For talent acquisition leader who are trying to get their seat at the table, Bryan and James have your backs. Every week, we'll dive into a new topic and often have a guide, tool, script, or examples to empower you to show your leadership how valuable you and yorur team really is.

Brought to you by Bryan Adams of HappyDance and James Ellis of Employer Brand Labs.
To get the downloads, subscribe for free at PeopleMBA.com.

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James Ellis